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Premier League or England?

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22 replies to this topic

#1
offline The Great Eckscape

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Was having a chat with Canvey Fan 1926 last night about the state of English football. I was talking about yet another disappointing visit to Wembley on Wednesday, and despite winning, that once again I came away after watching a poor performance.

I reckon that if England were a Premier League side, they wouldn't qualify for the Champions League. The influx of foreign players into the Premier League and beyond has meant that we have people like Glen Johnson playing in World Cup Qualifiers.

So here is the question - would you rather have the best league in the world as it is, the Premiership, or would you rather have a successful national side? I think that this is the state of things.

Italy won the World Cup in 2006, Spain won Euro 2008. These 2 nations have 1 representative in the Champions League Q/F compared to our 4, although we failed in 2006 and didn't even qualify for the Euros. No coincidence if you ask me.

Anyway, I've set up a poll, please vote smile



#2
offline YELLOW

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Prefer a stronger England side. Don't really follow the Premier League much now.

Agree, England were dissapointing against Ukraine. Other than Rooney showing some flashes of inspiration, England looked laboured and predictable.


Agree with Glen regarding some of the players.

Peter Crouch for example has a great scoring record at international level but would he get into Spain, France's or Holland's squad. I doubt he would.

#3
offline JAY

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This is always such an interesting debate tbh id rather see a stronger england side to a stronger because as Dave pointed out aswell i dont really follow the premier league much anymore and tbh I care more about the national side than the premier league and if it meant bringing back the 6 or 5 players in your starting 11 have to be english then I hope it happens also we are finding hard to give young english players a chance when the money is avalible and people are buying abroad most of the time nowdays you only have to look at sides like Arsenal or Bolton and see how many english players play week in and out.

Also thought I would add another Debate to this what are peoples thoughts of a wagecap in the premier league which was talked about not long ago

#4
offline The Great Eckscape

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I'd like to see wage capping across the board, though don't think it would ever happen. If the max a player could earn was say

#5
offline Miss.A.F.C.Hornchurch

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a stronger England side, hardly watch premiership anyway, unless torres or gerrard is playing for liverpool or the Spurs are on.... whistle

#6
offline yellow angel

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Have to opt for a stronger England side. Don't really follow the premiership, cant see that many of the teams actually have much to do with England, i mean look at Arsenal, Theo Walcott and a load of foreigners, and they are not exactly the only ones, Liverpool is hardly any better. I don't object to foreign players per se, i just think the number should be regulated.

#7
offline Matt H

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Stronger England side without a doubt.

I agree with wage-capping, (50k per week is more than reasonable). I also think the millions of pounds worth of TV money should be better distributed as well.

With wage-capping, football on the whole will be more competetive seeing as Man United and West Brom can only offer the same salary to a particular player and that will filter down the leagues.

There must be a rule about home-grown players though because I think wage-capping alone will have little impact on this. The only argument is that with all these foreigners coming in to the Premiership, those home-grown players that are forced out of the bigger clubs also filter down the leagues.

#8
offline Yellow Bungle

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Matt

Any wage capping will be linked to turnover, as a result Man Utd will become more dominant. The possibility of wage capping is only currently being explored as a means of providing financial stabilty, not restoring competitive balance.

Personally, I think you need squad caps, some of the sizes of squads are ridiculous - just look at West Ham until the recent clear out. Go back to having just a keeper and 1 outfield sub, and you'd cut the wage bill dramatically. It would really help lower league clubs and mean that the good players would be spread around a bit rather than warming benches at Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge perhaps restoring a bit of competitive balance.

#9
offline The Great Eckscape

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Going back to another idea that was raised about limiting the amount of foreign players, or should we say guaranteeing the inclusion of a certain number of home grown players.

Now I know that this would never happen due to legislation, but what are people's thoughts on this? I think if each side had a minimum of 5 home grown players, that would guarantee a minimum of 100 UK & Eire players in the Premiership each week. At the same time, I don't think that this would detract from the quality of the league too much, and I think it would mean that clubs would invest more in their youth academys and UK scouting operations.

This would surely have a knock on effect to the lower leagues and subsequently the non leagues, and the number of English players in demand would increase meaning that the potential for smaller clubs selling players on would be greater. It would also mean that you would get more youngsters getting a chance at the highest level if injuries kicked in.

If you look at some of the sides in the Prem at the moment (players who feature regularly when fit) -

Man Utd - Giggs, Scholes, O'Shea, Rooney, Evans, Neville, Fletcher, Ferdinand, Wellbeck

Aston Villa - Agbonlahor, A Young, L Young, Reo Coker, Sidwell, Shorey, Barry, Milner, Heskey, Davies, Knight, Gardner,

Spurs - Bale, Jenas, Lennon, Hutton, Woodgate, King, Dawson, Huddlestone, Bentley, O'Hara, Bent, Defoe, Keane

If you compare that to -

Liverpool - Gerrard, Carragher

Arsenal - Walcott

It's clear that some clubs aren't "doing their bit" when it comes to maintaining the national game, so is it time to force them to?



#10
offline Hornchurch "O"

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A good debatable subject.
A lot of clubs throughout the leagues benefit from having a strong Premier League.
Orient have loanees from West Ham, Chelsea and Spurs.
Man United have about 14 players out on loan at various clubs.

Nice to pick on Crouchie who has not done much wrong for England.

Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand,and Terry would get into most International teams on their club form.



#11
offline The Great Eckscape

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Loanees are all well and good, but would a club such as Orient or Southend rather have loan players to strengthen their team, or their own assets which they could sell and reinvest that money into producing future talent so the cycle continues? It's a tough one, hadn't considered the loans I must admit.

#12
offline pabird

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The real problem is the champions league
With four teams from the major European leagues making qualification and each taking from

#13
offline yellow angel

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If you are talking about a stronger England squad, then surely you cant include players from other home nations? O'Shea, Evans, Robbie Keane etc cannot be included as they cant represent England. I cant realistically see that a minimum of 5 English players would be workable under EU law, although something needs to be done (what?)or in a few years England players will be selected from lower leagues.....

#14
offline The Great Eckscape

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I had moved on a bit from the original argument. I consider the Irish players as "homegrown". Though I suppose it is the English Premier League...

#15
offline Hornchurch "O"

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And most are not Irish.
You only have to drink Guinness to get in their team.

#16
offline The Great Eckscape

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I will await my call up...

#17
offline The Gaffer from the Rock

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He said drink it, not dribble it down your chin!!!!!

#18
offline The Great Eckscape

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Which one of your chins do you dribble drink down then?!

#19
offline supermattknowsitall

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Originally Posted By: Matt CIFC
Stronger England side without a doubt.

I agree with wage-capping, (50k per week is more than reasonable). I also think the millions of pounds worth of TV money should be better distributed as well.

With wage-capping, football on the whole will be more competetive seeing as Man United and West Brom can only offer the same salary to a particular player and that will filter down the leagues.

There must be a rule about home-grown players though because I think wage-capping alone will have little impact on this. The only argument is that with all these foreigners coming in to the Premiership, those home-grown players that are forced out of the bigger clubs also filter down the leagues.

Its all good wage capping but what happens when you get to our level

#20
offline kevinyeah

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Stronger England Side... definatly.




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