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U23/21 CCL League

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23 replies to this topic

#1
offline AllStar

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I've heard whispers from 3-4 clubs that they're looking into starting an U23 or U21 CCL League - has anyone else heard this?

What's people thoughts on this do you think it's a good idea or a bad idea to head that way? With half the reserve sides in Surburban and some in Surrey Elite I think it could be a good way to go (if enough teams buy in to it of course)

#2
offline Rugg1

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I dont usually post on things on here, but this is a topic I have never agreed with. I find it a league for the sake of it which makes zero sense to me. The model used to be under 18s for youth team football, then reserve team football to step in to/progress into mens football and build for first team football. Why do you need an under 21/23 league? what do players or clubs gain? The only way I see sense, is if clubs have too many young players that arent good enough to get in a clubs reserve team and are too old for under 18s football. It would mean more money coming out of clubs to pay to put the games on. Thats my views on it, I dont see any logic for it. A player will gain more out of moving into reserve team football than they will under 21/23, for me your just holding a player back from getting the experience of playing with a mixture of ages like you do get in first team football. My 50ps worth.


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#3
offline AllStar

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I dont usually post on things on here, but this is a topic I have never agreed with. I find it a league for the sake of it which makes zero sense to me. The model used to be under 18s for youth team football, then reserve team football to step in to/progress into mens football and build for first team football. Why do you need an under 21/23 league? what do players or clubs gain? The only way I see sense, is if clubs have too many young players that arent good enough to get in a clubs reserve team and are too old for under 18s football. It would mean more money coming out of clubs to pay to put the games on. Thats my views on it, I dont see any logic for it. A player will gain more out of moving into reserve team football than they will under 21/23, for me your just holding a player back from getting the experience of playing with a mixture of ages like you do get in first team football. My 50ps worth.


Interesting view Rugg. I think a reserve team is a thing of the past personally. 7 CCL reserve teams are in the Surrey Elite reserve league and I would say that's not a good enough standard to be supporting a first team? U23 (allowed to play 3+ older) would allowed the first team to have a bigger squad and bring through youth players who need 1/2 more seasons. I think it's a better idea that sitting them on the bench week after week not playing much or playing park football where they just get kicked.

#4
offline Foxy10

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I agree with you Ruggs but the days of young lads playing reserve football against grown men is a rarity now. U21/23 teams are just another form of reserve sides these days, just with a limit to stop young players from being held back by those who might have had their best days but were clubmen as often used to be the case. 

 

I think there was a discussion a while back on this forum about reserve sides & their purpose in the modern game but it's surely only worth having if players are going to eventually make it to the first team - not en mass necessarily but at least some. That doesn't seem to happen much anymore & although youth players may need 1 or 2 more seasons they won't necessarily have that time anymore because managers/club's outlook will often change in that time. I think it will only be supported if the club's feel a need for it.

 

Having said that, the proposals I saw a while back by Barry Chapman seemed very professional & would help any club looking at that avenue.



#5
offline mug2football

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Agree with Ruggs and Foxy but with a few added things.

Reserve teams do have a great value but only if it is structured in the correct manner.

A makeup of a reserve should be Fringe first team players, Young progressive players and senior player maybe coming towards the later parts of their career. All three groups of players should be capable of playing in the first team or show potential to do so in future months. Add to that all reserve team player should have the desire to want to be called up to the first team.

The most important thing above all others is that the first and reserve manager communicate on a regular basis and perform reviews of players on a month by month basis or every two months.

In my opinion if the above is not in place it doesn’t matter what you call them (21’S, 23’S or reserves) it will not add any value to the club.

I see so many standalone reserve teams that play as a team in their own right with no connection/progression in to first team and no hunger by the players to do so.

As for the comment from all star regarding youths playing on parkland pitches and just getting kicked, I think you will find youth players get targeted at all levels as a potential weakness to exploit.



#6
offline Smudge

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A Ludicrous idea,just another way for the F.A. and Leagues to cream off more money from hard pressed Clubs.

Fines,Membership Fees,are all they are interested in.When was the last time you saw a representative from either of the Above.Rest my case.

Edited by Smudge, 2 March 2017 - 05:19 PM.


#7
offline lazarus

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The proposed Under-21 Division has been introduced only because it was requested by a number of clubs at the AGM. 

 

It is not a money making exercise and it has already been agreed that clubs wishing to enter will only have to pay an additional £30 affiliation, to cover basic costs.  Those who wish to enter can do so, Those who don't, don't have to.  It is an entirely voluntary competition.

 

A full explanation of how it would work was sent to all clubs a little while back.


Edited by lazarus, 2 March 2017 - 05:55 PM.


#8
offline AllStar

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The proposed Under-21 Division has been introduced only because it was requested by a number of clubs at the AGM.

It is not a money making exercise and it has already been agreed that clubs wishing to enter will only have to pay an additional £30 affiliation, to cover basic costs. Those who wish to enter can do so, Those who don't, don't have to. It is an entirely voluntary competition.

A full explanation of how it would work was sent to all clubs a little while back.


I think it's a great idea Lazarus and thanks for confirming what I'd heard via a few parties recently. If you don't mind me asking what are the numbers like for the proposed league if it was to go ahead? Do you think the 'u21' teams would be allowed to enter county cups?

#9
offline Footy Mad

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A Ludicrous idea,just another way for the F.A. and Leagues to cream off more money from hard pressed Clubs.

Fines,Membership Fees,are all they are interested in.When was the last time you saw a representative from either of the Above.Rest my case.


Saw FA/County FA representatives a couple of weeks ago at an E&E game

#10
offline lazarus

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Only the relevant County could give you a definite answer as to County Cups but we have seen specifically designated U21 sides in both the Surrey and Middlesex Premier Cups.  For Division One clubs, whose main County Cup is the Premier Cup, they would have to look at the Intermediate Cups I would have thought.

 

The FA has now sanctioned the new competition so it will go ahead, hopefully with between 8-12 clubs.  Following my memo to all clubs a little while ago, 8 gave a commitment at the time but even though the memo specified that it would be a midweek competition one or two seemed to think it would be a Saturday competition and may pull out, although there will be no problem (except possibly finding spare officials) if two clubs wish to play on a Saturday.

 

So long as there are six clubs minimum, we will get it going and we will now accept applications from clubs from outside the CCL, so long as they are within our area.and they are not denying one of our member clubs a place.  Once it's up and running, membership will hopefully increase.



#11
offline Bronco

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If you're not playing regular first team football at 21, you probably never will. Can't see the point in under 21 leagues. If you want to run an under 21 team, then great, but blood it in a normal reserve league against men or your not really helping anyone out.


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#12
offline Krooner

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If you're not playing regular first team football at 21, you probably never will. Can't see the point in under 21 leagues. If you want to run an under 21 team, then great, but blood it in a normal reserve league against men or your not really helping anyone out.

what do they do for the 3 years between 18 and 21 then Bronco ?



#13
offline Bronco

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what do they do for the 3 years between 18 and 21 then Bronco ?

Play reserve team football like they do now. 


Edited by Bronco, 3 March 2017 - 05:53 PM.


#14
offline Smudge

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A possible League of 6 Clubs would be great for player development.Will the F.A be putting any money in?

#15
offline mug2football

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Just don't get the concept of re-branding a reserve league......as a 21's with caveats to play older players......back to square one!

 

Very odd...and don't get what extra value it adds, but fully understand the extra costs it adds to all clubs that get mugged off by not having the right people in the right place to make it work. 

 

My concern is not for the overall concept, its for the clubs not bleeding money and ending up in a bigger pile of poo than potentially they are already. 

 

At a guess 6k+ or more to run that team for the year, does that sound about right?

 

Without the right people in place, Put 6k or more into your facilities! 

 

In the property game its all about kitchens and bathrooms, in the football game its all about lights and changing room/stands....though in my opinion it i about the quality of players and quality of the pitch!

 

Just my thoughts as my experience in football has taught that ideas are great as long as you have the people in place to make them work and money for that matter!. 



#16
offline Krooner

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Play reserve team football like they do now. 

Of course.  Where most players are under 23 ;)



#17
offline Bronco

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Of course.  Where most players are under 23 ;)

What is your point? As you will see from my original point, I state that in my opinion there is no point in under 21 leagues. The whole thing with reserve leagues is ANY age can play. Why have an under 21 league and then let each team have three over age players? If you went to watch reserve team football you would see you get that mix. What happens if you have a number of under 21 lads missing one weekend and have reached your limit on overage players? The game gets postponed and the club get fined.



#18
offline Big J R

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A possible League of 6 Clubs would be great for player development.Will the F.A be putting any money in?

 

A touch 'Tongue in Cheek', Peter ??

 

:bolt:



#19
offline Krooner

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What is your point? As you will see from my original point, I state that in my opinion there is no point in under 21 leagues. The whole thing with reserve leagues is ANY age can play. Why have an under 21 league and then let each team have three over age players? If you went to watch reserve team football you would see you get that mix. What happens if you have a number of under 21 lads missing one weekend and have reached your limit on overage players? The game gets postponed and the club get fined.

My point being that most reserve sides now are made up of younger players so we may as well call it an U23 league.  My view is if there are more than 4 or 5 over 23s in our reserve side it probably isn't doing what it should be doing.



#20
offline AllStar

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Has anyone got an update on this subject? I've seen a couple of posts on social media from certain clubs about u21s so not a lot... Does anyone know how many clubs signed up? When does the league start?




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