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26 replies to this topic

#21
offline The Invisible Man

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Yes Colin, I would think there are ways that are not only cheaper but would actually work!

However, as I say, ID cards have other benefits. You could have just one number for National Insurance, NHS number, passport, driving licence number, library card, so on and so on. It would just make life so much easier.

Most illegal immigrants already have a false passport and other documents - or more than one - probably before they enter the country - so there is no reason a small industry providing false ID cards wouldn't spring up. If the technology existed to link the cards to DNA samples or whatever they do, that might be different and prevent duplication. It would not stop the fraudulent aquisition of a card though.

The first thing that is needed is an end to the "thought police" attitude and to firm up border controls and immigration policy, and to not be afraid to sort out fraudulent benefits claimants and those who are not entitled to be here.

#22
offline Colin, Germany

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Surely an ID card is out of date. A chip implant would do the same job much more effectively.

#23
offline The Invisible Man

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Well yes, it would.

I suppose the criminal fraternity would get fake ones from chip shops, though?

Bound to be something fishy about them!

#24
offline Ron Merlin

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Don't be silly, Colin. Chip implant indeed. What's wrong with a bar code tattooed on the forehead? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Aside - the fact that the Madrid and 9/11 bombers had valid ID didn't seem to stop them...

Links:

That BBC story: http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/3728043.stm

This debate on Urban 75 (lots of lovely lefties):
http://www.urban75.n...ead.php?t=76316

Privacy International report (PDF):
http://www.privacyin...ollanalysis.pdf

#25
offline Colin, Germany

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The Invisible Man thinks that the benefit of ID cards is not fighting crime, restricting immigration and preventing terrorism, but the convenience of not carrying a passport, health insurance card, driving licence, library card, loyalty cards, etc. round with you. For this purpose a chip implant could be more efficient than having to carry an ID card around with you. At least you can't forget it.

Other people worry more about politicians and civil servants having access to too much data about them.

#26
offline The Invisible Man

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Not exactly what I said Colin.

To repeat, ID cards in themselves will have little or no effecrt on crime, terrorism or illegal immigration. The card will be forged or "acquired" in the same way as existing ID systrems are obtained.

We all have a myriad of ID numbers for all the various agencies with which we have to deal at present. To believe that that you maintain some kind of personal privacy or anonymity simply because we don't carry one card is self-delusion in the extreme. I suugest that an ID card an a single personal reference number for ALL agencies would be more convenient for all concerned, and make the transfer of data much easier: thus perhaps assisting in crime prevention etc in some small way.

Clearly one doesn't usually carry all the various licences and cards etc around all the time. But yes, one ID would be more conveneint and enable cross checking much quicker.

Those evil politicians and civil servants have access to plenty of data on you already, you're kidding yourself if you don't think they have. All sorts of credit companies, market research firms, banks, etc all have extensive databases, they know your details, your spending patterns and so on. This can be a good thing - it rapisly detected the fraudulant copying of my ATM/Switch card last year.

So if ID cards are so evil, what is the real difference between an ID card and a passport? YOu may argue that a passport is not mandatory, but it effectively is compulsory, unless you never wish to the shores of old ASlbion. You even need one to open a bank account!

#27
offline Colin, Germany

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The Privacy International report confirms that the views of the general public are similar to the views expressed on this thread in some respects:
A majority, 61%, is in favour of compulsory ID cards.
People do not want to pay for them, only 20% in favour.
Of the minority against them, 12% feel strongly about the issue.

It was interesting to see that fewer people supported the legal obligation to inform the ID Card Authority of any change of address. When I was in my early twenties, I changed my address rather frequently. It was always a lot of work informing everyone of my change of address. If all our bank accounts and loyalty cards etc. are stored under one number, it will be a lot less work. However, this is insufficient benefit from the card.

Will it be possible to dispense with official names in the future? Why should we need them if we have the same personal number for everything. We are used to inventing names for ourselves for eBay and the various forums and chatrooms we visit, and artists have always chosen names for themselves for marketing purposes. So we won't really need an official name.




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