Jump to content

Adverts are hidden for all 'Gold Members' - sign up for just £10 a year by clicking here | Advertise here for just 25p per 1,000 impressions - click here
Welcome to Fans Focus. You are currently viewing as a guest. Please login or register to post.    

Sign in icon Sign In Register Register Help Help Login with Facebook Login with Twitter

League section covering 2,000+ clubs - check out your division and club page click here!

Recent Topics

Recent Status Updates
(Update your status via the dropdown
to the right of your name (top left))

View All Updates

Upcoming Calendar Events

There are no forthcoming calendar events

Today's Birthdays ( 12-December 17 )

  • Photo
    Hornet

    Age: 57

  • Photo
    Riversider

    Age: 50

  • Photo
    tigersfan

    Age: 33

  • Photo
    theboss

    Age: 46

  • Photo
    beatsurrender

    Age: 40

  • Photo
    ebbsfleet is for life

    Age: 63

  • Photo
    sportingevenings

    Age: 52


Photo

Today's referee.

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
regular view basic view
28 replies to this topic

#1
offline Fezpian

Fezpian
  • Trainee
    Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 1 Oct 2003
Poor and lacking common sense.

For sure Proth's handled it on the line, was guilty of unsporting behavior and should be punished; but the game was a friendly and it should have been enough for him to be sent walking for an early bath, not with the unnecessary red card, but by instant substitution. The aim of this game was to exercise and try out players; but because of the referee's unnecessary attention to detail the game became blighted with little up front achievement as the 10 men tried to contain the Gill's pressure. It is a credit that they were held to two goals after the incident.

I remember last year's Gills friendly when McKim, I think it was (apology if incorrect), tussled constantly with the young Gill's midfielder who eventually became agitated and threw a petulant arm. The referee appeared to send them both for an early bath with substitutions taking place immediately. Common sense prevailed then; today was plain dogmatic nonsense. Players of both sides remonstrated for common sense to prevail but our man in black lost not only the plot today but lost respect for his position and brought refereeing standards back up for a very early seasonal discussion!

I would guess that today's red card will count in the season's tally and that Proth's will miss a league game as exclusion from further friendly games won't count, even though the sending off was during a friendly game.





#2
offline Alan W (GNFC)

Alan W (GNFC)
  • National Squad - 2nd XI
    Offline
  • Posts: 3,873
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Not the refs fault - according to RK, FIFA have issued one of their wonderful edicts - that friendlies, because there are paying public, should be treated the same as a league/ cup game etc, when it comes to Yellow & Red Cards.

The refs have said they dont like this, and, I guess in many cases, the ref can get away with ignoring the odd dodgy challenge (or backchat - such as Chris Moore's today, where he would no doubt have been yellow carded in a league game, but ref sensibly just spoke to him). Unfortunately, Proth's handball was a clear breach of rules and was an offence that FIFA deem to be punishable with a Red Card. Had the ref ignored the rule, he would potentially be suspended for flouting FIFA rules - especially as he had an assessor in the stand.

If FIFA view friendlies as games in which standard rules apply however, and suspensions now apply from following Saturday, then on that logical basis (and FIFA of course arent very logical!), Proth's should be suspended for next Saturday's friendly and NOT the first league game.

I hope thats the case - but if not, we have an able deputy in Lee Gledhill, so it wont be disastrous.

In the meantime, its about time we got rid of Mr Blatter - 1st the max substitutions rule (subsequently thrown out) and now this - farcical is the word that springs to mind !!

#3
offline Hempstead Gaz

Hempstead Gaz
  • National Squad - 1st XI
    Offline
  • Posts: 5,501
  • Joined: 18 May 2002
I agree, Alan. But why couldn't the ref decreed the ball over the line before Proths handled it. No one would have argued , Proths could have been subbed right away, ref gets full marks from the assessor (who would not have been in a position to argue against the refs decision) and the game would have carried on 11 a side.
10 v 11 did no favours to either side.
Despite the intransigent rulesfrom UEFA, the FA and FIFA, there is always a way round these problems.
All it needs is a little common sense.
Which the ref didn't have.

#4
offline Alan W (GNFC)

Alan W (GNFC)
  • National Squad - 2nd XI
    Offline
  • Posts: 3,873
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Easy to say with hindsight, but ref only had an instant to decide this matter and, having agreed with linesman that it was a penalty, he could scarcely then have decided the ball was over the line and award a goal.

Equally, this was effectively a 2 person decision. Ref could scarcely have awarded a goal when linesman was person in best position to decide and he'd flagged for a penalty.

Daft of Proths to handle it really though - a competitve league game or a cup game may make it worthwhile conceding a penalty and getting sent off - but as result didnt matter today, he may as well have let goal in (Is it actually worth handling on the line at all, I wonder - how many times are penalties missed in such cases, and even if they are missed, how many times does being 1 player short effectively cost a side the game anyway??)

As long as the suspension applies to a friendly rather than the first league game, it wont matter anyway - that is now the crucial issue.

#5
offline smithyman

smithyman
  • Reserves
    Offline
  • Posts: 149
  • Joined: 27 Jan 2003
It is difficult to argue that Proths should not have been sent off for handball on the line. But what annoyed me was that just before the Gillingham first goal there was blatant retaliation by their centre forward, with the ref no more than two yards from the incident. Not only did we not get a free kick but he allowed play to continue from which Gillingham scored and didn't do anything about the retaliation offence. If the ref was going to stick to the rules on handball then why didn't he stick to the rules on retaliation?

PS Congratulations to the Gills captain for spending so long trying to persuade the ref to keep his red card in his pocket.

#6
offline Alan W (GNFC)

Alan W (GNFC)
  • National Squad - 2nd XI
    Offline
  • Posts: 3,873
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Ref said on RK that he'd warned both managers before that a REd Card Offence would get Red Card. But as someone else said - if you apply rules properly to that incident, they need to be fully applied to Yellow cards as well - and we need to know there is consistency from all Refs in all Friendlies about applying the laws.

#7
offline Hempstead Gaz

Hempstead Gaz
  • National Squad - 1st XI
    Offline
  • Posts: 5,501
  • Joined: 18 May 2002
Apart from Ewan Roberts, I thought the Gills played the game in spendid spirit, competitive, tough butfair tackling but with a smile and a brisk handshake.
I would be more worried if I was Hessenthaler, though, as the Gills had no star quality players and looked very ordinary, whereas we played some really nice football, and look to be bonding into a fine squad.

#8
offline John@TheFleet

John@TheFleet
  • Reserves Coach
    Offline
  • Posts: 1,592
  • Joined: 14 Jul 2003
A Gills supporter in the pub last night was far from happy, stating that if they couldn't score against 10 non-league part-timers, what hope would they have against Leeds, West Ham etc. What hope, indeed. Championship? You're 'aving a larf!!!!

#9
offline Guest__*

Guest__*
  • rank
    Offline
  • Joined: --
Well they did have one quality flair player, and that was Jarvis. I can see what the fuss is all about

#10
offline Chad

Chad
  • Reserves
    Offline
  • Posts: 72
  • Joined: 29 Feb 2004
As a neutral (supports both teams) to yesterday's game I feel I can say that both teams played some decent football but neither side ever really carved out any real decent chances apart from Essendoah and Agyemang. Some will say Gills looked anything but a Championship side but I would put that down to Fleet's stubborn rear-guard and the fact that Fleet have progressed immensely. I remember in recent years we have been able to stuff you but now Fleet have a decent and talented squad. I felt tho both teams lacked someone who could play a killer pass. Fleet missed Perkins in the middle and Drury out wide - Jacko not the same player. Gills have been looking for a passer of the ball since Osborn left.
I was also surprised to see Surey playing for Fleet yesterday, i didnt realise that he'd come back albeit on trial. He still doesnt look good enough for me and would be a waste of a contract as Fleet are overloaded in midfield. Fleet still need another forward. Pinnock was probably Fleet's brightest player.

The ref?? well, no comments for him. I agree he had to apply the rules but he defeated the object of the game. Gills don't want to play against 10 men and Fleet when building up match fitness dont wanna play with only 10.

#11
offline Fezpian

Fezpian
  • Trainee
    Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 1 Oct 2003
Interesting discussion. Do you actually need to have official refereeing at friendly games? If a friendly game was organised and no officials appointed but the staff of both teams did it, (one in each half perhaps) would this contravene FA ruling?

Alternatively, if the referees need to be watched during friendlies perhaps they could also be substituted to exercise them and try them out.

#12
offline Chad

Chad
  • Reserves
    Offline
  • Posts: 72
  • Joined: 29 Feb 2004
I thought that in friendlies they only got local refs to do it therefore this ref is clearly not good enough and never will progress so why try to make an impression?? Maybe he was just trying to get some attention!

#13
offline Mepis

Mepis
  • First XI - Sub's Bench
    Offline
  • Posts: 307
  • Joined: 19 May 2002
Well as a game it was terrible, i stood with four mates 3 Gills & 1 Charlton fan they were all against the sending off, all felt Roberts should have been yellow carded for his tackle and kicking of Porter which led to the Gills goal, it was a stroll in the park for Gills, they will not set the league on fire and they know it, and for Fleet mid table around 10-12, in the evening a mate of mine who is a ref and was actually ref at Chatham against Hertford on saturday was asked by us about the sending off, he said it is the law of the game and he has to go as simple as that, the law is different this year.


#14
offline Stu M

Stu M
  • National Squad - 1st XI
    Offline
  • Posts: 6,503
  • Joined: 17 May 2002
Quote:
Chad said:
As a neutral (supports both teams) to yesterday's game...
I remember in recent years we have been able to stuff you...



Are you sure you're neutral Chad...?!!

#15
offline smithyman

smithyman
  • Reserves
    Offline
  • Posts: 149
  • Joined: 27 Jan 2003
I thought that Roberts' kick at Porter was retaliation and is that not a red card offence?

#16
offline Ray ellingham

Ray ellingham
  • First XI - Weekly Contract
    Offline
  • Posts: 418
  • Joined: 21 May 2002
Although I was not at the game the Ref had no choice, we as referees are in a no win situation in these type of games..If the Ref had nod sent Lee off he would have been suspensed by the FA so I don't think we can blame him

#17
offline Alan W (GNFC)

Alan W (GNFC)
  • National Squad - 2nd XI
    Offline
  • Posts: 3,873
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Do you know when the suspension will be, Ray?

Will it be treated as next Saturday ie immediate, as per new rulews, or will the friendlies conveniently be ignored for the purpose & sudspension apply to 1st league game? If the latter, very much double standards here

#18
offline Ray ellingham

Ray ellingham
  • First XI - Weekly Contract
    Offline
  • Posts: 418
  • Joined: 21 May 2002
Not sure to be honest here in Wales I understand it will be the start of the season which IMO is unfair as once the season starts it will be the next game....Dave do you know?

#19
offline David Holden

David Holden
  • Youth Team Coach
    Offline
  • Posts: 8,757
  • Joined: 5 Sep 2001
  • Location: Gravesend
  • Supports: Gravesend & Northfleet
  • Foes: Dartford
Quote:
Chad said:
I thought that in friendlies they only got local refs to do it therefore this ref is clearly not good enough and never will progress so why try to make an impression?? Maybe he was just trying to get some attention!


Actually, he is a Conference Referee.

#20
offline mossey

mossey
  • Onlooker
    Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Quote:
Chad said:
As a neutral (supports both teams) to yesterday's game


May I just point out that this neutral was wearing a gills shirt to the game.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

View New Posts

List of all CLUBS on Fans Focus