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John Paul the Great ? Beatification ?

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#1
offline vienna1964

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I'm not Catholic... I'm not even Christian.
I do think that John Paul II was a great man and did much for the world at large in his quietly efficient and patient manner.

There is clamour amongst the world's Catholics to beatify him (make him a saint) as soon as possible - fast-tracking if you will... and to append "the Great" to his name - only the third Pope in history to be referred to as such.

I think that the suffixed "the Great" is imbued simply by common usage and may probably be taken "as read"... but how about that beatification ?

What do we as a multidenominational, multitheistic forum think about it ?

John Paul II did very much to include other religious beliefs, rather than perpetuate the old Catholic dogma that "if you ain't Catholic, you'll burn" - should not other religious houses recognise his good works on a pantheistic basis ?

Ladies & Gentlemen... your considered thoughts please...

#2
offline The Invisible Man

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I don't care in the least what they call him or what pompous yet meaningless titles are bestowed upon him. It's entirely up to catholics.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to call him "great" though. The catholic church continues to cause misery and suffering throughut the world with its policies on birth control and attitudes to Aids - particularly from third world bishops.

#3
offline Woody SUFC

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I would of been a good cathlolic boy if i wasn't kicked out of church for throwing up...

#4
offline The Invisible Man

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He's in more need of beautification!

#5
offline Uncle Urchin

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the is no doubt that the man himself stood for most that is good in this world, but the belief that he, or indeed any other pope can change or control the politics/policies of the vatican is a joke...

the pope is a figurehead without any power over church policy. The vatican and its non elected purveyors of treachery greed and machevellian policy making throught the world are steeped in the middle ages and cause more misery than good.

#6
offline American FLEET FAN No1

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It has to be remembered that this Pope oversaw the biggest scandal in American Catholicism, the raping of boys by Priests. Instead of defrocking them, they were moved to other diocese, where they just proceeded to do it all over again.
Unfortunately he will be Lauded for one thing people believe he might have done, the demise of Communism, which i think world politicians might have had something to do with!

#7
offline Big J R

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Quote:
Uncle Urchin said:
the is no doubt that the man himself stood for most that is good in this world, but the belief that he, or indeed any other pope can change or control the politics/policies of the vatican is a joke...

the pope is a figurehead without any power over church policy. The vatican and its non elected purveyors of treachery greed and machevellian policy making throught the world are steeped in the middle ages and cause more misery than good.


...... and there's absolutely NO truth to the rumour/conspiracy theory that if you p1ss around with their money, you're found dangling under Blackfriars Bridge !!

#8
offline Uncle Urchin

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the original cosa nostra families of southern Italy and Sicily BJR have controlled the affairs of the vatican since medieval times....the two organisations are welded together by greed and 'family' power plays....nowt will change

#9
offline Big J R

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Quote:
Uncle Urchin said:
the original cosa nostra families of southern Italy and Sicily BJR have controlled the affairs of the vatican since medieval times....the two organisations are welded together by greed and 'family' power plays....nowt will change


Exactly, Unc, and you'll notice, that NOT ONCE, did I mention Essex in that post !

#10
offline Moo

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He was merely a human, the same as the rest of us. I don't think he did anything worthy of being considered a saint. The fact he covered up what was going on, and in fact helped it along, is proof he is not worthy of sainthood. Once a pedophile always a pedophile, and simply moving those priest from one area to another did nothing but give them new prey.

#11
offline Uncle Urchin

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strong views Moo...but did HE know about it all.....that was my submission and one that I suspect was correct....

he didn't....

#12
offline The Invisible Man

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The man at the top carries the can, as well you know Unc.......!

He must have known, doesn't he ever watch telly or read the papers?

#13
offline Moo

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Quote:
strong views Moo...but did HE know about it all.....


I simply refuse to believe he couldn't have known about it all. How could they have kept it from the head honcho? He is the one in charge of it all, and they would have had to let him know what was going on. Things like that have to be reported to the top, I would think. I see this as one of the biggest cover ups in history. The mere fact he didn't ban these priests as soon as they were found guilty shows me he was trying to pretend things weren't as bad as they really were. He was only enabling these monsters to carry on with what they were doing.

#14
offline pabird

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Of course he knew but since when has the church had the concerns of people at heart, lets remember the church has always been at the front in terms of war leadership and the maintenance of increasing its flock by keeping them in poverty

#15
offline Moo

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Not all churches are like that. Besides, if you check into it, the Catholic Church is pretty much the biggest corporation in the world as far as money goes. They could feed the whole world with what they are worth.

My point here is that no person who is not only aware of the molestation of children, but also allowing it to happen is worthy of sainthood. He should have not only banned the priests, but saw to it they were punished for what they were doing.

#16
offline Big J R

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Hmmmmm....

I see a theological battle starting.

Strange that the Primate of the Catholic Church in England, when Bishop of Arundel, was probably the worst offender of child-abuse cover ups ever in this country !

#17
offline Uncle Urchin

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for three years past he had serious and advanced alzheimers as well as god knows what else.....he was wheeled into and out of public appearances and I doubt very much that he knew much at all....

if he did know then I agree...he should have used a very heavy hand....

I still maintain that the vatican is the head offices of the cosa nostra and is involved in every crime known to mankind......

mind you....they're all as bad as each other...vicars running off with verger's wives and choirboys ripened for the kill by dick emery style clergy throughout the world.... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

extremist catholics (inc one who runs our education system) wearing spurs on their garters and lashing themselves senseless every night....priests in betting shops and italian restaurants every day....it goes on and on and on..... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

where's watchdog when you need 'em... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

and...

why did the vatican attempt to stop the publication of 'fingerprints of the gods'.... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

#18
offline CANV EFM

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no one gave a sh.te about the pope till he was dead.. then everyone does a princess di. n goes mental.. and now a few weeks later.. no one cares again..
make him a saint..? what for? dieing..?
he didnt do anything much really

#19
offline The Invisible Man

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As ever, summed up nicely Canv!

#20
offline Barry Scott

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i don't think the pope was as much of a sl*t as Di




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