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11 replies to this topic

#1
offline BOROMAN

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France get a referendum, Holland get one, we get Jack S**t (or is that Straw) from Blair!

For those with long memories (or old gits like me), we had a vote in the 70's to decide on Europe, but that was a different set up. A group of nations joing together to form a trading bond, not making rules on anything from working hours to how many bits of loo paper you can use when having a cr&p.

The goalposts have moved so far that what we have now is not what we voted for. Therefore surley we should be entitled to a vote.

#2
offline SteveP

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Err, we are, there will either be a referendum or the thing will go up in smoke before it gets across here.

What do you actually know about the constitution?

#3
offline Harry J Allstars

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The reason why we get no referendum is becuase Blair knows he'll lose. There's no point him having his credability tarnished. Blair will become President of Europe soon so all he can do is try to bring the constitution up to scratch and go out with a bang. How would he manage that if we had voted NO! to europe as well?

#4
offline American FLEET FAN No1

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Two have voted no.....so there is no point Britain having a referendum..........But wait............The French government said the referendum means nothing..........they are still poushing on with the Constitution..........Sounds familiar!

#5
offline Martin

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Basically the government scheduled the referundum for later in the year to give as many other countries as possible the opportunity to torpedo the constitution. The reason being the government knew there was absolute no chance of the yes vote in this country - which is largely due to the hysterical and hypocritical media coverage in this country. This way the government quite rightly gets to argue that there is no point in voting on the constitution in its current form as neither the Dutch or French have a mandate to support it.

#6
offline Big J R

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Quote:
Harry J Allstars said:
The reason why we get no referendum is becuase Blair knows he'll lose. There's no point him having his credability tarnished. Blair will become President of Europe soon so all he can do is try to bring the constitution up to scratch [color:"red"] and go out with a bang . [color:"black"] How would he manage that if we had voted NO! to europe as well?


[color:"blue"] I wish he would !! [color:"black"]

#7
offline jkmaskell

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I remember seeing a comment written by one of the founders of the EU saying that the whole point of the EU, as it was in its first stage was that its meant to be a superstate. Not using the word superstate but the intention was clearly the same. Will track it down. Its blatantly obvious that the whole point is to have a single organisation governing Europe so that a future World War would never happen. Europe is sleepwalking into a federal superstate.

As for the constitution itself, Britain gives up vetoes on very serious issues, foreign policy for example. And for what? Six months at the top table! Britain wont have its referendum yet, which is a good thing.

#8
offline SteveP

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we won't have a referendum at all, because france and holland have rejected it.

As for 6 months at the top table, that would change as the EU president would a be a permenant role not a rolling one.

No one has said what the terms of the constitution are, the Sun or the Mail have hardly been forthcoming, except of course to say that it's all wrong! It very well maybe but without knowing the facts people are bound to say they don't want it.

Who actually knows what this constitution is supposed to do, bear in mind a fair number of french people voted against this because it was to pro-freemarket, or as they put it too anglo saxon?

I don't honestly know enough about it to condone it or condemn it, just because some posters might get overly patriotic when the phrase EU comes up, but that doesn't mean it should be shot down in flames before anyone knows what the thing means.

#9
offline c'mon ricay

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The French traditionally view the free market as pro anglo-saxon but now they probably and quite rightly view it as pro eastern block as the eastern block member states meaning that manufacturing jobs are lost to places with lower wage costs etc. Also this hits French agriculture very hard as it is largely a rural (backward and inbred) country and the wealthy rural landowners then lay off the peasants so the peasant then blames the EU.

Another reason is the fact people are pissed off they didn’t get the chance to vote on expansion and the euro

Also the French left would be annoyed at being in their eyes forced to vote for Jacque Chiraque when John Marie Le Pen came second in the French presidential elections

Europe should just be a free zone as that is what we signed up to in the 70’s and it should remain that way

#10
offline Martin

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My understanding of the constitution is that it is essentially a tidying up exercise. Previously the EU has been governed by the various treaties that the member states had entered into. I believe the aim of the constitution was to bring the various aspects of the treaties together into one document that was suppossed to be more accessible. There was very little "new" in it. It was a terrible PR error to call it a constitution - a word that is immediately going to provide ammunition to the anti-Europeans who fear the Untied States of Europe.

#11
offline Big J R

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..... and my understanding of the Constitution is that it is the worlds biggest gravy-train; fat-cat's charter; poofs meeting house; corrupt money-grabbing boys club; jobs for the boys association................


(Arrr ! That's better !!!)

#12
offline Martin

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A definition that applies to all political institutions just look at Westminster or Capitol Hill. Alternative?




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