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46 replies to this topic

#1
offline Kevin_Rye

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Sorry, but I've not been able to post a reply on the relevant topic - something to do with being a bit useless, but never mind. I've addressed people's queries about Supporters Direct (SD) here, and then below, posted summat about the Hx thing.

1. Supporters Direct was set up in 2000 and is what's termed a 'government initiative'. We aren't even a quango however, and we have cross-party support from Tories, Lib Dems and Labour. We're an independent organisation, funded by a grant that we used to receive from the Football Foundation, and now receive from Sport England (around £325k pa). In Scotland, the Scottish Executive funds our work (£90k). Our members are the supporters trusts we help to set up. We are, like our members, an Industrial and Provident Society, which means we're owned by those members.

2. In response to Unc's queries, no, I don't own Supporters Direct (SD). As I said, it's an IPS - a bit like a Co-Operative.

3. I'm not sure what you mean re: Wealdstone, but we've had nothing to do with any of what's happened or is happening at Wealdstone. I presume you're referring to the problems with their ground.

4. If a group of fans approach us and want our assistance in setting up a Supporters Trust, we facilitate that. The organisations adopt a set of model rules that we and our solicitors, Cobbetts (based in Manchester), sponsor. From then on they are independent organisations that seeks to gain an influence in their club.

5. We work in English football (including Welsh clubs in the English senior pyramid) and in Scotland. Although we've helped to set up some Rugby Union and League trusts, we aren't funded to do so.

6. We provide a start up grant of £2,000 to pay up to 50% of those costs for each trust.

7. We charge an annual membership fee of £50 after the first year - a trust in its first year of membership doesn't pay anything. Our members voted to bring this in two years ago at our first AGM.

8. We don't charge anything else.

With regards to Hx, at no time did I say anything I consider to be libellous or otherwise. I merely stated a series of facts about what happened, the structure of ownership, and then expressed my opinion that I don't think clubs should be owned in that way. You may think I'm full of sh*te, but I don't think I am, and many, many other people across the game, not just fans and the people I know in supporters trusts, agree with me.

I'm always happy to enter into a debate about it, no problem. And I certainly wouldn't go around intentionally slurring people, and if I had by mistake, I'd be more than happy to apologise.

#2
offline Eastside Urchin

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cheers,just think that instead of using clubs as an example on a public forum(where fans of those clubs go on)it could of been better just to use the example without using the clubs name,when you speak at canvey no one can stop you using hornchurch or any other club as an example,thats fair enough,but on here it is an open forum for the use of all fans,fans come and go between different forums and get touchy when their club is seemingly put down,the situation between clubs like hornchurch and wimbledon is slighty different,wimbledon average 2000plus and hornchurch average 400,therefore the supporters may of not been in a position to take the club over or want to,our club has been through a lot over the past 15-16 months and the supporters have suffered not knowing where we were playing until the summer last year,this year the club have turned themselves round with work from not just the owners but alot of the fans who care about the club,excuse us if we get a bit touchy from time to time but when we come on the canvey forum to wish them the best for their grievances at the moment we do not expect to hear how our club shouldn't be run at the moment after just securing our first league and cup double
thanks for your response though,it is appreciated

#3
offline The Town Crier

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A question, I've not read the other thread btw, If you are here to help Canvey, and I sincerely hope you are, why talk about Hornchurch?

What do you do with the 325k pa.

Will you provide the good people of Canvey with a set of accounts to show where that money goes?

Will/have you put the canvey folk in direct touch with a similar type of football trust which you have been instrumental in setting up.
IMO, it is very important that they speak with such a trust, at length, and very soon.


If the people of Canvey do not want me to ask what I think are relevant questions on your behalf, please let me know and I will cease.

My intentions are only for what I think will help you decide what is best for your club.

#4
offline Guest__*

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Town Crier we have already asked them, right suspicisous bast&ard me!!

I have done a little research and these are a genuine not for profit group dedicated to supporters.

I have spoken to other clubs who have been through this process who give glowing reports about them.

They do provide open accounts and publish suitable documents for all to see, have a look at their website it is quite interesting.

I have done a little research and tried to find some negative comments about them, I have spent a couple of days looking and with the exception of one seriously dodgy chairman who will remain un named I can't find one so far!!

It seems the only person who has anything negative to say is one chairman who is terrified of losing control of his empire and before you ask no they are not in Essex.

I think they are OK!!!!

#5
offline Kevin_Rye

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I used Hornchurch as an example because I thought it was suitable. I would do the same again if I thought it was right to do it. What your club chooses to do and how things are now on the ground is not what I was commenting on. I didn't think it was particularly useful for people to fly off the handle about it either, as everything I have said about Hx, Canvey or anything is either factual, or it's an opinion based on experience in the game, that's all. I know people are protective of their clubs, God knows I can be as well, but there's ways and means.

As for our accounts and what do we do with our money, it's all a matter of public record. As we receive public money, we have to be open.

#6
offline The Town Crier

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My, your touchy Kevin, in your rush to answer you failed to read which club I support.

Well done MOB, If I can be of any assistant don't hesitate to ask. Via pm would probably be best.


I wish you and your club well, Good luck.

#7
offline Eastside Urchin

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i am not saying you can't use hornchurch as an example,you could do this with the good people of canvey behind closed doors at a meeting,but on a public forum where hornchurch fans were offering support is a bit below the belt,just my opinion

#8
offline Guest__*

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Eastside

I will be careful what I say as I do not want to start Unc of again, I am not sure I am up to facing his wrath two nights in a row.

If you accept as I think everyone has, it was not insulting or libelous, then the rest is called "freedom of speech" the only places we dont have that is in some communist countries and my mother in laws, come on let it go!!

#9
offline Uncle Urchin

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Quote:
Kevin_Rye said:


With regards to Hx, at no time did I say anything I consider to be libellous or otherwise. I merely stated a series of facts about what happened, the structure of ownership, and then expressed my opinion that I don't think clubs should be owned in that way.


facts are accurate mr rye..your comments were not..

hx 'crashed in november 2004...directors at that time were brian eagling, gary calder and andrew bailey

in january 2005 two new directors were appointed following a full report from insolvency practioners instructed by the shareholders to clear the mess, those directors were jon smith and jennie cliff, neither were involved in the running of the football club prior or during its financial collapse and (due to the liklihood of insolvency in the near future) both were given dispension by the courts under various sections of the insolvency act to protect them. (Quite obviously the company need directors and all three previous directors resigned in or around november/december 2004) so your comments in that respect were innaccurate and incorrect...an apology by email to the two offended directors will suffice...

your opinion may be different..but the fact remains that afch has made a modest profit under the directorship of the current (now three) directors and has also had a championship winning season..a cup success and are competing for an historic treble on mayday at grays....

if you feel that your comments were not defammatory (when you suggested that you wouldn't like a club to be run like afch) then you need to speak to someone about social etiquettes...

you may have your views and you are entitled to them...but do not use falsehoods and inaccuracies to make your points...use the truth and hard facts...

#10
offline Eastside Urchin

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look last night got out of hand,i will admit that,we don't come on here to rub your noses in it,we have no right to,i just thought as did a couple of others that it was bad publicity to use us as an example without knowing the full facts,all we see as fans is the club doing well after the problems,we don't have a big sponsor behind us to our knowledge and some of the people are still here when they could of walked away from the club and it may well of folded,of those people,i see them on a regular basis stapling programmes together and tending to the pitch amongst other things,they obviously care about the club otherwise they wouldn't take as much pride in the things they do as they do.Whatever people think of unc and nette,they do work their butts off for the urchin cause,and have no doubt learnt from things that have happened

#11
offline Uncle Urchin

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last night did get out of hand esu but only because some tanked up forum warrior called me a moron..... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I appreciate also your comments about nett and I but its not needed mate...we know what we do and we can look in the mirror...

we're also still here... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

#12
offline Eastside Urchin

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champions!!!

#13
offline The Great Eckscape

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Look, as much as your words of support have been appreciated, this is the CANVEY ISLAND Forum. Conversation on here should relate to us in our struggle, and should not be turning into a row about completely irrelevant points.

As I say, your support have been very much appreciated, but I think this forum would be much more useful if the topics are kept relevant.

#14
offline Eastside Urchin

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look,we all hope you get your problems sorted and yes it is a canvey forum,but it is open to other fans,as is ours,there was just some resentment about the comments attributed to our club which has been put right in the end,we are as passionate about our club as you are of yours and thats one thing we all have in common!

#15
offline Guest__*

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See look what you done you got him started, who called Unc a "Moron"!!!!

#16
offline The Great Eckscape

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And I don't blame you for you passion, quite the opposite!

All I was saying is that it is no use to anybody this board turning into a slanging match. Everyone will have their own opinions, but we need to focus 100% on Canvey at the moment.

Saying that, please keep your input coming, as your experiences with Hornchurch will undoubtedly prove very useful.

#17
offline Guest__*

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Especially if we need a new conservatory!!!


(I am sorry!! I know!! You do not need to say it cheap shot, old joke, lowering the tone and all that but lets not forget the banter even in challenging times)

No offence meant honest!!

#18
offline Eastside Urchin

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i spat canelloni all over the computer screen then!!!

#19
offline The Great Eckscape

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Or maybe if they need a Caravan MOB?!?!

#20
offline Guest__*

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Honestly I am sitting in my conservatory.

I paid £18,000 cash for it with a hole in the roof and the firm I bought it from has gone bust,Cannelloni I am spitting feathers!!!




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