GRS67 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Maybe this is dumb to say, but I think that real non league football is played from step 4 DOWNWARDS !!!!! Teams in step 3 and above leagues have full time players, the conference to me is not non league in the sense it used to be, as they are all full time players, and the clubs are run pretty much the same as league 2 sides. Step 4 and and downwards, the grounds are rarely full with more then 100+ unless its a derby game or a big club who have been relegated. I dont see the point in going to watch a game in the conference national or south or north and have to pay over £10 and over £2.50 for a programme, have to put up with stewards, police, and rules and regulations, you may as well just go to watch league football. I am very happy watching Edgware at this level, I know we are never going to be a big club, never going to be any higher then prob step 4, and I am happy with that. If you know your clubs level then you can enjoy the football you watch. There is not the pressure at this level that there is even in Ryman Prem. Ambiton is great, but at this level you can really enjoy the games and not have to put up with all the hassle that goes with watching football at a higher level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWK Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Good call Gavin, with promotion to the Football League now viable there is a world of difference between the Conference (& South/North etc) than there is at our level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRS67 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Let's face it, the conference national and the south and north ( a stupid idea by the FA IMO) are as you say a world of difference to the football we watch. Our clubs are the flag wavers for grass roots. I am sure they are pletny who support league and non league teams, but I bet that a lot of those go to watch games in the conference leagues. They would prob not even know clubs like us exsited. All these clubs are run just like pro teams, many of them are full time pros, whereas our players have to do a days work before heading off for a midweek game. I can relate a lot more to the players we have, and enjoy this level of football a lot more. I often think what would happen if a backer with big money came into the club and pumped loads of money in and got us up the leagues. I bet I would enjoy it a lot less the more serious it became. Sure its serious at our level, its just that a couple of divisons higher things get a lot more about winning then taking part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharming Paula Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 When we (Canvey) were in the Conference for 2 seasons we were still part time. Beleive there was only one other club who were p/t. Of the full time clubs many have gone into admin or are struggling as they are not pulling in the crowds. If you read some of the posts from the Conference clubs on this forum you will see that there budgets have been cut for this season. Some of the players expect too much too. One of our plays although p/t was alledgedly on over 1K per week with others getting in the region of £500 - £800 per week. There were obviously bonuses on top of those figures for goals scored etc. Our players are now playing for the love of the game and the club and are on a much lower wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhodes Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Gavin - You're making yourself busy today with all this posting and new threads, what's going on. You have made some valid points however I for one am ambitious for my Club (Kentish Town) and aim to see us in the Conference in years to come and eventually the Football League itself, there should be the same ambition at Edgware who are not a Mickey Mouse Club by any means and in a huge catchment area with great potential for development and progress. Look at Club's like Wingate and Finchley and Waltham Forest for example, not big Club's in a football sense but with big ideas and innovative people on board who are capable of pressing the right buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRS67 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Rhodes I like your passion as you like mine, but I tend to live in the real world. Kentish town are never going to be in the conference UNLESS someoen with a lot of money comes in and spends it all on the club. Even then it would be a long shot. Edgware is a not a mickey mouse club as you say, but neither are we a Ryman Prem club. Step 4 would be a real achivenment if we could make it. The cathment area around Edgware is not good, there lots of other clubs in the area who cant get more then 150 for Ryman prem games like Hendon & Harrow boro for eg. Wingate struggle to get even 100 and sometimes get crowds as low as 50ish for games last season in a decent southern league east div. WE had a chairman who had some big ideas and said the 'I will get Edgware in the conf within five years. Instead we ended up having an awfull team and he signed the lease to the ground away, which has put us in the situation we are in now. Ambiton is great, If I won millions on the lottery I would invest some in Edgware, but I would not expect to be in the conf/football league within a few years playing to packed crowds, I would just want to improve the ground and club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharming Paula Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Just don't rely on one man/company putting money in. Look what happened to us. Our invester/manager/director invested heavily in the club for over 10 years and done wonders for us. He helped us get from the ESL to the Conference in 10 years. Built up the club and the team. Unfortunately because of the catchment area we could not get enough fans to make a profit no matter how hard we tried. For at least the last year he was financing the club from his own pocket to the sum of 8K per WEEK! Eventually he had enough (after all he is a business man). He pulled out. We had litlle over 2 months to save the club but through dedication of the fans and some of the staff we suceeded! However, we were unable to finance the club at Conference level so we opted to drop 3 leagues to Ryman 1! We lost ALL our 1st team players. Our then reserves are now our 1st team with a few players brought in. It has been a success but without that dedication we would have folded. Just don't get too greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Noakes Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I remember Canvey Island coming to Hertford in the old Ryman Division Three. You could see then they were going to go through the leagues and quickly ! I agree with Gavin about going beyond Step 3 (Ryman Premier) is it worth it ? In the last five years so many clubs have folded or dropped leagues who have been in the Conference or Conference North or South.This never used to happen before ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharming Paula Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Seems like Crawley is the next to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRS67 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 You are right when you mention catchment areas. Unless the support is there to come its very hard. This is why non league clubs in london, apart from AFC Wimbledon who are a special case find it very hard to attrcact good crowds. While Rhodes ambtions for Haringey and Kentish Town are commendable they are pipe dreams that will never happen. AFC Wimbledon could make it to say league 2 and do ok, but Barnet struggle to pull in crowds of over 2000, and you could say they have a large enough catchment area to draw upon. If the support is not there then once the club reach the peak the crowds will level out and wont get any bigger. The ex chairman of Edgware who got the club in the [****!!****] and has his big ideas stated the local community not being intrested was why he pulled out. He would have done beter paying the clubs fines to the FA, that way we woud nto have been banned from the FA cup for last year and this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRS67 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 In the last five years so many clubs have folded or dropped leagues who have been in the Conference or Conference North or South.This never used to happen before .. This is because they have all got greedy and ideas above their station. They should know their level rather they putting money into someting that is never going to happen. Sure its great to have dreams and ambiton but its also good to have a level footing. I blame the FA for introducing the Conf south and North, now you have to win promotion twice to make the conf whereas it was just once before they introduce the south and north, stupid idea if you ask me. These clubs then put money into making the conf national as they see it being a chance to go full time, that backfires and before you know it they are in debt and going bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football Man Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I think most clubs are where they are in the non league pyramid because that is their true level. Most of us will look at a club and say "oh, they're a Ryman Premier Club" or "they're an Essex Senior League club" because that is their accepted level - give or take the occasional promotion or relegation. Clubs need to make slow progress through the levels if they are to sustain things over the mid to long term. Those that have risen rapidly through the pyramid on the finances of a single person have very quickly dropped back down again when that resource dries up. We have seen it recently at places like Hornchurch and, at a higher scale, Rushden & Diamonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharming Paula Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The only difference with Canvey was that we opted to go 3 levels lower and Canvey Island was sold to us for £1 with a 15 year lease and debt free!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRS67 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Pottersbar, I could not agree more, well said. I am quite supprised this therad got a few replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krooner Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Quote: Paula said: Just don't rely on one man/company putting money in. Look what happened to us. Our invester/manager/director invested heavily in the club for over 10 years and done wonders for us. He helped us get from the ESL to the Conference in 10 years. Built up the club and the team. Unfortunately because of the catchment area we could not get enough fans to make a profit no matter how hard we tried. For at least the last year he was financing the club from his own pocket to the sum of 8K per WEEK! Eventually he had enough (after all he is a business man). He pulled out. We had litlle over 2 months to save the club but through dedication of the fans and some of the staff we suceeded! However, we were unable to finance the club at Conference level so we opted to drop 3 leagues to Ryman 1! We lost ALL our 1st team players. Our then reserves are now our 1st team with a few players brought in. It has been a success but without that dedication we would have folded. Just don't get too greedy. Have to say Paula personally I thought you should of been left in the Conference. If I suddenley had millions to spend at Krooner would they allow us to go straight up to the Conference. Of course they wouldn't. Either Canvey should of stayed in the Conference and played out the season or you should of had to start from the bottom. Your club is a huge example of the nonsense in non league football when 1 person ploughs the money in. My club has been debt free for 20 years, never paid over the odds for players and we have stayed at Step 5. Pay what you can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharming Paula Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 We did play out the season in the conference with our heads held high!!! What was the point continueing in the Conference for the new season with only reserves being used as 1st team players, and the fan base dropping?? That would have been sucicide!!! And could you image how the team would have felt - loosing week in week out. The morale would have been rock bottom. How could you call that competitive football. We were expecting to start life again in the ESL (the bottom as you put it) but the FA originally put us in the Ryman Premier. We only dropped another league because of the conflict of interest with Chelmsford City. At that time the club had not officially been signed over to us and Jeff was at Chelmo so we dropped a further league. As a club we have survived and IMO we are now back on our way up thanks to the dedication of the supporters, team and staff!!! COME ON YOU YELLOWS!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Yes, Paula, Krooner CAN imagine what it's like to lose every week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharming Paula Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Quote: Horace said: Yes, Paula, Krooner CAN imagine what it's like to lose every week! Oops - put me foot in it again!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I'm one to talk! Played our first competitive game today ,home to Southern Premier Hemel Hempstead in the Herts Charity Cup - lost 1-0 Having said that, we've played them in 4 out of the last 5 seasons in this cup, and lost 4-2, 7-3 and 4-0 before, so only 1-0 could be described as a huge mprovement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Apologies to Krooner - see his mob got off to a flying start in the Combined Counties, with a 3-1 home win! Heady days at Krooner Park! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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