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what do people think on here on how are country is being run

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#1
offline zody

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open debate views and comments please

#2
offline pabird

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Quote:
zody said:
open debate views and comments please


“How the country is being run” is a contradiction in terms when related to the labour party attempt at government.
If they have demonstrated anything in 9 years it is their lack of management skills and most of all their inability to plan forward.
When taking government we were the 4th richest country in the world we are now definitely 5th and maybe lower depending on the true debt situation, which will not be fully revealed until they are dumped out of government.
So who exactly can be pleased in the manner of labours performance?
1. It is often said a country can be judged in the manner in which it cares for its senior citizens, amongst labours first actions in 1997 was to hold back £5b from private pension funds = 9 x £5b = £45b and the worsening and in some cases the collapse of some private pension funds.
2. The basic pension performance has been miserable at best including the year when Brown handed out a pension rise of 75p per week. Remember pensioners on fixed income are attempting to withstand above inflation rises in council tax, fuel prices and general increases beyond the norm in essential foods etc.
3. The man who would be PM has by way of hidden tax revenues introduced a new tax circa every two months since 1997.
4. Each year the number of children that leave infant school to enter senior school do so with ever diminishing skills in the three Rs.
5. The transport systems especially in the south are in a state of collapse to such an extent that main line railways have had to cut the number of trains running to enable any degree of efficiency in timetable performance.
6. Dentistry has virtually gone from the NHS.
7. The NHS performance now determines that one in ten who are admitted catch a serious dirt generated disease that they did not have when they entered.
8. Hospitals, hospital wards and health centres are being closed, today’s figures show that nine out of ten nurses leaving nursing college will fail to get a job in the NHS.
9. Billions have been wasted employing NHS managers who only exist to massage the government target figures.
10. This government has managed to lose control of our borders to such an extent that they have lost (a conservative figure) 600,000 illegal immigrants.
11. They have allowed a legal immigration way beyond anything our public services can cope with, hosing NHS, Education etc all suffer due to their abject failure to manage immigration.
12. Brutal knife - gun and mugging crime on the streets has risen beyond control under this government and our police are reduced to pen pushing civil servants.
13. They have been proven to be the most sleaze-ridden government since WW11.
14. They have reduced parliament to bystanders as they ignore democracy and treat the wishes of the people in all areas covered above with 100% arrogance.
15. They have invaded a foreign state illegally and created the deaths of hundreds of thousands of human beings and in doing so have increased greatly the risk from terrorists actions in the UK.

In the words of various prophets “there is more! So much more”

#3
offline The Invisible Man

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I think the country has been appallingly run, and progressively worse run, since the 1950's. Great strides were made following WW2 but then it all went pear shaped.

#4
offline Big J R

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Run into the Ground springs to mind !

#5
offline cantos

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The thing about pouring more money into the health service is that more people are fleecing it.There appears to be no real controls over spending and getting best value.
My son who has cerebal palsy,received a specialized chair and the invoice came with it for 500 pounds.
I was on holiday in Granada Spain,and in a disabled equipment shop,there was the same chair on sale for the equivalent of 150 pound.
You can guess that the chair was made in England.

#6
offline Stu M

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My wife, self-employed, could not work for two months as she had a complicated and life-threatening ectopic pregnancy. She applied for incapacity benefit, with anote from her doctor, and received a reply saying "We consider your job could be performed despite your condition". Wow, so their 'expert' gynecological opinion stands over that of a doctor's?

Honestly don't know why we bother paying National Insurance. If I was some dole-bludging chav, I'd probably be driving a government-funded Mercedes by now.

#7
offline Burnham Lad

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Brown as Prime Minister? Joke!
Can you imagine Brown as PM with Prescott as his Deputy? It would be funny if it wasn't tragic.

He needn't worry though, he has a nice big fat pension to look forward to, which he got by nicking ours

#8
offline pabird

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Not since Marlon Brando in on the waterfront has there been an acting performance to match Blairs conference speech.
That comment is not cynical but genuine, Blair acted out a great performance.
Brando was acting out the sad disillusioned world of an ex-boxer.
Blair was acting out the role of a statesman.
Superb performances by both but one realised he was imitating life and returned to the real world immediately after the cameras stopped turning, the other (Blair) lives Permantly off-world.
In 1997 we were 4th ranked in the worlds richest nations we are now 10th.
Immigration legal and illegal, NHS dentistry gone, NHS going, pensioners and their pensions a disgrace in the civilised world, debt per house hold, thousands of human beings dead in a disgusting flawed attempt to make Blair a world statesman, Gun/Knife/mugging and rape crime culture of never before seen intensity in the UK, sleaze beyond the wit of any previous government.
We could double those failures above and still we have dead head labour conference members giving this worst ever-real world PM a 9-minute standing ovation.

May our Gods save us from the labour party?

#9
offline The Invisible Man

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Sadly I do not disagree, pabird.

Sadder still, I see no alternative. We would have exactly the same with the other lot. Politics is now all style over substance, no policies or philosophies offered for the electorate to choose from, just soundbites, cameos, catchphrases, logos, competing to ofer lower taxes like adverts for mortgages, spin and more spin.

As for the Libdems, gawd 'elp us. Despite the beer and sandals image the old Libs had some pretty sound policies but the present mob are barking.

#10
offline pabird

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I have lived through bad and odd very good government.
I have never witnessed the constant down grading of my country as I have for the past nine yrs.
Every department prostituted on the alter of ego but no performance, sleaze to new heights of arrogance, democracy watered down to infinity and we have become the laughing stock of diplomacy as attempted world statesmanship fails and my country has killed thousands upon thousands of innocent human beings on the alter of a posers ego. Only failure has been consistent.

#11
offline The Invisible Man

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Ah, well there I do disagree. I would say pretty much the same about the previous administration.

#12
offline MbrunoB

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And a few others before that.

#13
offline pabird

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what do people think on here on how are country is being run was the question INVIS and I am at a loss to know if it is me and would be willing to accept I am wrong in stating this is the worst ever if you could deny with data the following (few) historical issues:
1997-2006:
1. Labour lost control of our borders in an unprecedented manner losing 600,000 illegal immigrants and taking on board the million or two immigrants that collectively change the culture in vast areas of the UK and all done without reference to the GB public.
2. Labour have taken a £20b pa treasury “profit” and turned it into a £30b pa loss (debt)
3. Unlike any previous government in living history labour have sneaked in a hidden tax circa every two months across the nine years.
4. Labour have led us into a travesty of justice in the Middle East and as a result killed many thousands of innocent human beings and alarmingly increased terrorist threat and activity in the UK.
5. Labour has watered down the value of parliament in ignoring debate on major issues at every opportunity.
6. Sleaze? Take your choice of ministers including the DPM.
7. NHS?
8. NHS (Dentistry?)
9. Pensions private?
10. State pensions.
11. Council tax.
12. Primary education.
13. Gun/Knife/Muggings and Rape incidents?
14. And so on ever after.
Prior to this government I believed Big Jims was the worst then a touch of Major and the final days of St Maggie but in my considered opinion nothing matches the miserable record and downgrading of the UK managed by labour 1997-2006.
You are a very bright man INVIS show me the error of my ways.

#14
offline Hookey

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Being a former badge wearing, card carrying member of the Labour Party (Bethnal Green & Bow when Peter Shore was MP) I am heartbroken at the way my country is being run.

I absolutely hated Thatcher (Both Maggie & Ben) for what she did to this country in the eighties, e.g. Privatising BT (my employers), the Gas, the Electricity, the railways and just about everything else. Even Macmillan said she was selling off the family silver!!! Then there was the complete destruction of the mining industry, causing hundreds of communities to collapse and forcing thousands of men and women on to the dole.

She used the police force like her own private army, waving ten pound notes and battering strikers, both men and women, on the picket lines at Orgreave etc, not forgetting the debacle at Wapping, when her pal Murdoch unceremoniously sacked all the Sun printers (My brother-in-law was one of them). She set out to destroy the Trade Union Movement and very nearly succeeded.

You want to talk about sleaze, much has been lost in the mists of time but does anyone remember Westland Helicopters? Randy Cecil Parkinson, bent Jonathan Aitkin....

We also had all-time high unemployment, 3 million Plus.

As I said, I really do not like Blair or what he has become (A tragedy John Smith passed away when he did) but I would hate it even more if we returned to the dark days of Thatcher.

I'm not as eloquent as Pabird but I hope my point has been made!

#15
offline The Invisible Man

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I think you and I are as one Hookey. There basically is no Labour Party any more, and I'm not convinced there is a Conservative Party either.

#16
offline pabird

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Your point is made and with some eloquence.
Peter Shore would have been a giant among this shower.
To hate Maggie determines you were not attempting survival pre-Maggie, as a contractor I worked in virtually every nationalised industry pre-Maggie and it was a pig’s dinner of union abuse, That is not me being dogmatic but experiencing shock as an efficiency driven contractor supervisor paid to perform and then to watch fit able men take months of sick leave and a lasting mental picture of Brit-Rail maintenance engineers doing 2-3 hours “work” a day then down the pub (every day).
Wapping! I worked at the Daily Mirror and the Beaverbrook papers in Fleet Street and if ever an industry committed suicide it was the NAT SOPER layabouts and their colleagues who opposed every move into the future that the media wished to take.
Eddie Sharr was paid as a hit man to move the industry forward in technology and manpower procedures and in the end won a war against union overlords. Please tell me what was so democratic about the print unions when the only way in was to be a relative of an existing union member!
Maggie made one mistake with the miners when in her hatred of their potty leader she closed down mines over night crushing the livelihood of whole communities at a stroke. It should have taken 2-3-4 years with other industry encouraged in to the areas.
Maggie made major errors and we new it, she never knowingly lied to us the community, Blair!! Who would ever trust him again?
Westland helicopters agreed but the other stuff was minimal to the Asian steelworks billionaire “assisted by Blair into becoming the richest man in the UK. Prescott “assists for moral reasons” a casino into the Dome, please!
When did we ever truly worry about a minister getting his end away!
When Labour get into sleaze it is mega bucks and never have so many ministers been proven as “at it” and yet only one has resigned and he was ushered into a £100,000 pa job in Europe by our PM.

I do understand labour support that have been so tragically betrayed, but they should not turn on all politicians due to the utter failure from a group they had such hopes for. We will regain our place in the world and we will reconsider the condition of our senior citizens and our sick and our primary school children and all the stops in-between ignored by this government, the only certainty is that it will not be by a labour government.

#17
offline Hookey

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All true! I can't fault any of it. Some unions got exactly what they deserved, after all, they were major contributors to Maggie being in power in the first place. I'm talking of course about the "winter of discontent"!! But in her ruthlessness, she threw the baby out with the bath water.

I personally did not struggle pre Maggie, in fact I personally did very well under her policies, but having a social conscience I could never forgive the sell offs or the destruction of the miners.

Also, I am certainly not defending this corrupt government and it makes my skin crawl to think they still have the cheek to call themselves the Labour Party, as if to demonstrate their representation of the working man/woman. They certainly do not represent me or my values.

You know what's even scarier, the alternatives. The Tories led by Cameron, the Lib Dems lead by Menzies-Campbell, the Greens, the BNP, the Black Gay Whales against the Bomb!!!!! No thank you.

No wonder there is such apathy on polling day!!!

#18
offline pabird

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In my life time as below, the biggest nonesense from those who were not attempting to pay mortgages and raise a family is where did the huge upwards rise in interest rates and bank rates materialise, I will never forget as I had to leave my family to work abroad to save my mortgage.
The acceleration of both rates to unbelievably high levels commenced under good ol boy Jim Callaghan, We took a mortgage at 3.5% which 3 years later (1979) had risen to 8.5% and continued on and up to 15% we were attempting to live under an inflation rate that was going off the chart and topped out at 26%.
All that commenced under good ol Jim and then when he asked labour conference to accept cuts they voted against him.
Trust me we were all going to hell in a handbasket only Maggie got us on to a stable footing. Many thought she stayed a term to many (me included) but by then the threat of bankruptcy had faded away.


· Clement Richard Attlee 1945-51 Labour
· Anthony Eden 1955-7 Conservative
· Harold Macmillan 1957-63 Conservative
· Sir Alec Douglas-Home 1963-4 Conservative
· Harold Wilson 1964-70 and 1974-6 Labour
· Edward Heath 1970-4 Conservative
· James Callaghan 1976-9 Labour
· Margaret Thatcher 1979-90 Conservative
· John Major 1990-97 Conservative


As PM Callaghan - described as 'big, relaxed and handsome' - presided over a sterling crisis, which led to negotiations with the IMF for a rescue package, but he did keep his Cabinet team together during the controversy over the conditions set.
Spending cuts and pay restraint were demanded, but the left wing Labour conference nevertheless voted for more spending.
Things were made more difficult still when Labour's small majority disappeared in 1977, making Labour dependent on the support of the Liberals. However, Callaghan persevered in office even when this pact broke down.
During the 'Winter of Discontent' in 1978, industrial action over pay policy severely damaged the governments authority.
The government lost a confidence motion on 28 March 1979 by just one vote a classic piece of high-tension political theatre.

Thatcher: She held junior posts before becoming shadow spokesperson for Education, and entered the Cabinet as Education Secretary in 1970.
In Opposition she stood against Edward Heath for the party leadership in 1975. Her victory was considered a surprise by many. In 1979, the Conservative Party won the General Election and Margaret Thatcher succeeded James Callaghan as PM.
Thatcher's first two years in office were not easy. Unemployment was very high, but the economy gradually showed improvement. She brought more of her supporters into the Cabinet, and bolstered her reputation by leading the country to war against Argentina in the Falkland Islands.
Landslide victory
The Conservatives went on to win the 1983 election by a landslide, aided by a fragmented opposition. Margaret Thatcher's government followed a radical programme of privatisation and deregulation, reform of the Trade Unions, tax cuts and the introduction of market mechanisms into health and education. The aim was to reduce the role of government and increase individual self-reliance.
One great difficulty during her time in office was the issue of Europe. Her long-serving Foreign Secretary, Sir Geoffrey Howe resigned in November 1990 in protest at Thatcher's attitude

#19
offline Hookey

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It's funny, but when I look back it isn't with sadness or a feeling of tough times. I just remember the total hatred I had for the woman and the things she did that I actually understood, like the miners, the privatisations and the "avoidable" Falklands War. I say avoidable because I believe MI6 made her aware of the impending invasion 6 months before it happened. For sure, it, along with Michael Foot turning up at the Cenotaph in a Duffell coat cost Labour the '82 election. You may disagree with that as you have a better grip on events back then than I do.

I'm not intellectual or intelligent enough to appreciate what she may or may not have done for the economy, or how her policies in Europe affected me.

Something else she did was the "Right to Buy" scheme, allowing people the opportunity to buy their council homes. I was dead against this, at first, because I wondered where the young people of the borough were going to live if they couldn't afford a mortgage. I resisted for a long time the temptation to buy my 2 bed maisonette in the heart of the east end, until I realised that all council flats becoming available were being given to the Bengali community and Somalian Refugees (lovely people by the way), and not the local born and bred people of the borough.

It was at this time I capitulated and "Sold Out" and went ahead and bought my flat for half it's market value. I sold it two years later for 4 times what I paid for it. This was how I managed to move to Essex. Even now I'm uncomfortable with having bought my council flat.

One thing I will say for her, she had strength of character and was never Reagan's bitch the Blair is Bush's!!!

None of which helps me decide who I'll vote for next time around. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

#20
offline Stu M

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Anyone voting for Jonathan Ross?

http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/5398416.stm




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