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#41
offline The Invisible Man

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Should that be "Come on you E (1893)s? grin

#42
offline Mr Happy

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Originally Posted By: Out_Of_Towner
Originally Posted By: Mr Happy



It is not someone else's debt, it is EFC's debt. When your new owners took the club over surely tehy carried out a due dilligence search that would have established the sums of money the club owed and the sums of money they then owed as a result of taking ownership of the club. As I have said I feel for the loyal fans but it is wrong for owners of a business to simply wipe out THEIR debts leaving creditors empty handed.






Dont agree with you there Mr Happy ,Why should Steve Whittington be held accountable for Lazarou's mistermena's ? Or maybe you just have a blind hatred of some kind ,Dont forget some fans on both sides still remain friends so why rake this up ? Lovely stuff has made a few sensible points ,Hats off to him. I am confused as to why The current E's board didn't start again in the first place in 2003/4 instead of doing it now . [/quote]

No blind hatred. Have friends at EFC. however, if whittington decided to take over the club then he decided to tak eover their liabilities. Thus, the debt bacme theirs. My problem is with the way in which too many directors of businesses are able to liquidate their poorly run companies or poorly run acquired companies and get rid of their debts in one go. My old boss did it twice which is one of the reasons I left to set up my own company and I have made sure that even when biz is poor you don't trade insolvent. for the thrid time I wish the fans all the best but the present directors should not be allowed to carry on running EFC.

#43
offline Iron Webbo

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Originally Posted By: Big Bad
Think you need to take a lokk again it wasnt EFC's debt it was EFC HOLDINGS LTD debt not the football club!!!


EFC Holdings LTD was, of course the original Enfield Football Club Limited. Our old 'friend' Mr Lazarou bought a second off the shelf company and renamed it EFC.

The debts were all EFC's.

#44
offline Steph

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Enfield Holdings ltd went into liquidation. As a corporate entity it could hold shares in another company which was Enfield FC. Any income from EFC would be used to pay presumed debts to EFC holdings and this money was used to pay of EFC creditors. Why EFC did not immediately go into liquidation once the new board took over seems to be a total lack of common sense. Or did they want to screw ETFC.

Look at it this way if EFC had creditors rather than Liabilities then Steve Whittington et al would certainly have said the money was theirs. But then they would have had to have paid to take it over.

Steve Whittington et al knew what they were taking on (one hopes) it seems to me that they did it in order to screw ETFC for reasons of which I am not at all clear. Perhaps it was to get the Escrow money or a presumed hold on Enfield Council. I feel that the board of EFC should come clean and explain why they would not let this club die so that ETFC could have taken on the history and have a stronger position with regard to negotiations with the council.

Can someone from the board come clean and say exactly what were the motives to continue with EFC. And why did you charge so much for that first cup game under your management when the opposition was Hemel Hempstead if the profits from that game merely went to EFC holdings ltd? I do not take the line that it had nothing to do with the current board the club is the corporate entity and not the board!

Steve and the board of EFC have never done ETFC any favours and, as I have said before, have rejected all friendly overtures from the board of ETFC. The result is that they are now playing in the Essex Senior League and ETFC are the strongest club in the Enfield area. If that is the result that the board of EFC wanted they have been very successful but it seems a peculiar way to run a football club.

#45
offline lovely stuff

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My previous reference to Aldershot fc is poinyant.What would have become of football in that Town,had someone decided to take over Aldershot Fc just before liquidation and keep the club and name going outside of Aldershot,whilst the majority of fans reformed as Aldershot Town.It would have been highly detrimental to football in the area and i've no doubt that Aldershot Fc would be knowhere near the status they currently are IF that had occurred.

#46
offline Big Bad

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Originally Posted By: Steph
Enfield Holdings ltd went into liquidation. As a corporate entity it could hold shares in another company which was Enfield FC. Any income from EFC would be used to pay presumed debts to EFC holdings and this money was used to pay of EFC creditors. Why EFC did not immediately go into liquidation once the new board took over seems to be a total lack of common sense. Or did they want to screw ETFC.

Look at it this way if EFC had creditors rather than Liabilities then Steve Whittington et al would certainly have said the money was theirs. But then they would have had to have paid to take it over.

Steve Whittington et al knew what they were taking on (one hopes) it seems to me that they did it in order to screw ETFC for reasons of which I am not at all clear. Perhaps it was to get the Escrow money or a presumed hold on Enfield Council. I feel that the board of EFC should come clean and explain why they would not let this club die so that ETFC could have taken on the history and have a stronger position with regard to negotiations with the council.

Can someone from the board come clean and say exactly what were the motives to continue with EFC. And why did you charge so much for that first cup game under your management when the opposition was Hemel Hempstead if the profits from that game merely went to EFC holdings ltd? I do not take the line that it had nothing to do with the current board the club is the corporate entity and not the board!

Steve and the board of EFC have never done ETFC any favours and, as I have said before, have rejected all friendly overtures from the board of ETFC. The result is that they are now playing in the Essex Senior League and ETFC are the strongest club in the Enfield area. If that is the result that the board of EFC wanted they have been very successful but it seems a peculiar way to run a football club.


Steph why on earth should Steve or any efc fan do anything to help etfc out??? you are a differant club, that would be like spurs fans helping arsenal or man city fans helping man utd it DONT happen!!!!
Also why has everything got to be about ETFC??? yeah Steve and the Board took over the club in NOV 2003, what with the sole aim
of "screwing ETFC" YEAH im sure they did!!!! Like the fans who remained with the club they wanted to help keep this great club going!!! It seems to me Steph that your rant is all about the history of this club and wanting it to be ETFC's! WHY are you not happy with what ETFC have done in the last 5/6 years and feel you have to have our history as well??? AS if I were a fan of ETFC I would'nt want the history of ANOTHER club when its not our history!!!
Also you you keep on about the £8 charge on the cup Hemel game, for god sake man get over it!!!! AS I have said before it had nothing to do with them people who took over the club. it was already set for that season, and Im lead to belive that you cant change it when set!!!!

Steph, HOWEVER this part you may wish to be envolved in.

As a member of the supporters club And I know I have the backing of all the board when I say this. I invite all ETFC fans and there board and of corse our fans to a meeting at the downs time and date to be sorted, to join forces in view to getting on to the council about a ground share at donkey lane OR else were that both clubs could build on a plot of land. As I feel it would be in both clubs interst to do so.
To this last bit if you think that would be a good idea let me know PM me and I will phone or talk to you if you feel this could be a good step. Lets be fair its all about getting a ground now, not whats happened in the past. Look forward to your views

#47
offline EFCMICK

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As far as I'm aware ETFC seem more interested in a 50-50 ownership of Brimsdown . Sorry if I'm wrong but surely the best thing to do is to have us both in Donkey lane . I know this cant be done overnight ,Steve has told Enfield council he would be happy to share donkey lane with ETFC . It wouldn't be such a bad idea in the long run . Mr Happy steve was running the club on license from EFCLazarou Holdings . Lazarou was still the owner of that company NOT steve or any other board member .

#48
offline Steph

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Yes Enfield FC were a great club - perhaps not as great as Clapton but you'll find out when you go to the "Spotted Dog" next season!

#49
offline lovely stuff

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Steph is probably upset because Town was set-up in 2001 for the sole purpose of freeing the EFC fans from the grip of Tony Lazarou,and forcing him quit the club by cutting off his income stream.All assetts had been stripped from the club,and it was obvious by summer 2000 that Lazarou had decided in his own mind to slowly dissolve the club rather than ever hand it over to the fans (something that we had been trying,and failing, to persuade him to do for many seasons) .The setting up of Town was soley designed to return football to the borough,force his departure and have an infrastructure in place for when he did go. The move in setting up Town proved highly successful in forcing Lazarou to quit.What was not anticipated was for someone to take on Lazarous debts and continue.So yes, a lot of fans (niavely as it turned out) ,were under the impression that Town would merge back into EFC as soon as Laz was eventually liquidated.

So many Town fans feel bitterness towards the current EFC board and the EFC fans who decided to first continue with Lazarou and then back the 11th hour take-over.

EFC fans ,in turn,feel bitterness toward those who set up Town,because they feel betrayed and abandoned by their former fellow fans,and they believe those who set up Town were wrong in doing so.

So where does that leave us? probably way too far down the line to ever unite again.EFC fans blame those that set-up Town for this state of affairs.Many Town fans blame Mr Whittingtons consortium for how things have panned out.

With regards to talks between the two clubs supporters? It seems the desire for a ground in the borough is the main (if not only) reason for a belated olive branch.I'm also wary that EFC fans sort approval from their board before suggesting a meet.I would be willing to form closer ties with EFC fans as a way of eventually merging or uniting the fans.And its probably best to leave both boards out of the loop in such discussions.Will sharing a ground help with that? Maybe? Maybe Not?Probably not? It seems that EFC fans still are 100% behind Mr Whittington.Fiar play to them.But they must realise that Enfield as a footballing Town will always be devided as a result.Sharing a ground will make no difference in the current atmosphere.
Saying that, I would rather longterm future at the QE,rather than Brimsdown.


#50
offline Big Bad

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Steph If you cant be serious then please leave this forum. Not being funny but all you have done is take the piss out of EFC and it wereing thin with most of the people on the forum, you even started a war with the Hornchurch fans if I remember right.
Steph why dont you come down the downs bar and have a friendly drink with us face to face on a tuesday or thursday night from 7.30, I'll even by you a drink if you dont have the money, to talk about the two clubs going forward!

As for Clapton we have already been there two or three times thanks.

#51
offline Big Bad

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Originally Posted By: lovely stuff
Steph is probably upset because Town was set-up in 2001 for the sole purpose of freeing the EFC fans from the grip of Tony Lazarou,and forcing him quit the club by cutting off his income stream.All assetts had been stripped from the club,and it was obvious by summer 2000 that Lazarou had decided in his own mind to slowly dissolve the club rather than ever hand it over to the fans (something that we had been trying,and failing, to persuade him to do for many seasons) .The setting up of Town was soley designed to return football to the borough,force his departure and have an infrastructure in place for when he did go. The move in setting up Town proved highly successful in forcing Lazarou to quit.What was not anticipated was for someone to take on Lazarous debts and continue.So yes, a lot of fans (niavely as it turned out) ,were under the impression that Town would merge back into EFC as soon as Laz was eventually liquidated.

So many Town fans feel bitterness towards the current EFC board and the EFC fans who decided to first continue with Lazarou and then back the 11th hour take-over.

EFC fans ,in turn,feel bitterness toward those who set up Town,because they feel betrayed and abandoned by their former fellow fans,and they believe those who set up Town were wrong in doing so.

So where does that leave us? probably way too far down the line to ever unite again.EFC fans blame us for this state of affairs.Many Town fans blame Mr Whittingtons consortium for how things have panned out.

With regards to talks between the two clubs supporters? It seems the desire for a ground in the borough is the main (if not only) reason for a belated olive branch.I'm also wary that EFC sort approval from their board before suggesting a meet.I would be willing to form closer ties with EFC fans as a way of eventually merging or uniting the fans.And its probably best to leave both boards out of the loop in such discussions.Will sharing a ground help with that? Maybe? Maybe Not?Probably not? It seems that EFC fans still are 100% behind Mr Whittington.Fiar play to them.But they must realise that Enfield as a footballing Town will always be devided as a result.Sharing a ground will make no difference in the current atmosphere.



LS with regards to the meeting up and talking Im well up for it, but the board were not sort after and asked first we sat down and talked at a night were most fans turned up and the board were there and were happy to do along with it.

HOWEVER how anyone can blame the board or fans for saveing a club going under is silly, I dont care what you guys did back then I just wanted my club to servive no matter what!!!! When Steve and the other board members come in then great my club was saved. I would follow EFC if it was a sunday park team on the hackney marshes, BUT that is besides the point. The point now is I would make sence for us to unite as a fans of football for the benafit of both clubs to get Donkey lane or somewere else. You could say that the Inter/Milan Juventus/Tornio? and there a a few other about may not like each other but do it for the benafit of there clubs!!! so come on what do you say?

#52
offline lovely stuff

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Many people at ETFC have worked for years with the council to find a suitable site ,and have spent years of hardwork setting up an infrastructure in the borough.To then see EFC come in and potentially have just as much infrasture as we have(ie..sharing a stadium with us) without putting in anywhere near the effort or hard work,will be hard for some town fans to take.Having said that,if the two clubs worked together to first gain the QE site and then pursuade the council to help fund it,we would all have much better chance of aquiring it than we would as seperate clubs.

#53
offline Sponsor of Beer

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Perhaps I'm missing the point, but isn't it the intention of Spurs Reserves to play at a QE Stadium funded by Spurs' planning gain contribution to its Bulls Cross application. If that's still the case, then there's only room for one other club to share if they harbour promotion aspirations(FA rules).

#54
offline andyetfc

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Originally Posted By: Sponsor of Beer
Perhaps I'm missing the point, but isn't it the intention of Spurs Reserves to play at a QE Stadium funded by Spurs' planning gain contribution to its Bulls Cross application. If that's still the case, then there's only room for one other club to share if they harbour promotion aspirations(FA rules).


If this is still the case, then I doubt whether either of the two Enfield teams will be able to call Donkey Lane 'Home'.

Either will still be tenants of another club.



#55
offline lovely stuff

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From my understanding,the development at the QE site proposed by Spurs in their planning application, is a sweetener to Enfield council in exchange for losing space at Bull Cross.There was no mention of Spurs fully owning the facilities after they were built.At worst i presumed the council would be 50% in control of the venue.

#56
offline andyetfc

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That was the initial proposal. Things may have changed by the time the re-submission goes in in September.

Can you define 50% in control of the venue?

#57
offline JP21

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Spurs Reserves will be playing at Leyton Orient next season.

#58
offline JAX

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As a reasonably new supporter I dont quite know how to take in all the politics ,But I would like to thank all of you for your good wishes for the future ,I'm sure a one division drop isn't the end of the world and that the board can stop chucking away money on the previous owners failures .I was introduced to this club by a friend and I have made new friends at this club and they are a smashing bunch of people . A drastic step has been taken and over the course of time things should hopefully improve . see you next season .Jackki x

#59
offline Sponsor of Beer

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Originally Posted By: andyetfc
That was the initial proposal. Things may have changed by the time the re-submission goes in in September.

Can you define 50% in control of the venue?


Spurs will contribute money under the Section 106 (planning gain) obligation attached to the Bull's Cross planning approval, and obtain a License/Lease for their Reserves to play at Donkey Lane once its ready. Either the Council grants that License/Lease direct (and others to anybody else it allows to play there) while it runs the facility, or it obliges its tenant (operating under a Lease of the site) to grant Spurs a License/sub-Lease.

Simple really!

#60
offline andyetfc

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As I mentioned earlier, things may have changed by the time of the re-submission. I won't believe it until I see it.




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