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Doc Martens League superior to Ryman?

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36 replies to this topic

#1
offline Merv

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I would think the Dr Martens is a lot stronger in general than the Rymans.<BR>If you look at the last 3 teams to get promoted to the Conference - Boston,<BR>Margate and Nuneaton - they are all in the top 4 of the league. Also,<BR>Kidderminster, Cheltenham and Rushden are all recent champions who've gone<BR>on to gain promotion to the Football League. It's not surprising really as<BR>it covers by far the larger geographical region of any of the 3 feeder<BR>leagues.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I just reveived an email from one of our Brummie cousins. He was responding to a point I made in my Halesowen match report where I intimated that in Saturday's Ryman v Dr Martens it was Canvey's class that showed. I don't think this was an isolated example as we, and other Ryman clubs have given Dr Marten teams short shrift. However, it may be a point for discussion.<P>Would you agree with him?<P>Merv<p>[ 14 October 2001: This message was edited by: Merv CIFC ]

#2
offline Simon BTFC

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I think it's a fair point that (with the obvious exception of the Daggers) Ryman league champions havn't faired terribly well in the conference, Sutton and Kingstonian could only mange a handful of seasons between them before relegation, whilst Hayes have hardly set the division alight. But, IMHO the DM's league as it stands at the moment does not have the same strength in depth as ours. Having watched teams from all 3 divisions this season, I think that the western division, in particular, is very poor and many of the teams in it would struggle in our division 3. The eastern division is better, Grantham yesterday looked a useful side. Does anybody have any statisics relating to matches between teams from the two divisions? I think we've come out pretty well over the last few seasons.

#3
offline SteveP

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I think that we don't get enough exposure to the other leagues, maybe once or twice in the FA Cup or Trophy but I think it would be really good to see a tournament between the top 3 feeder leagues and let it take the place of those terrible league cup or full members cup games, which in most cases mean nothing to no one, no disrespect to previous winners but you know what I mean.<P>Would it not be a bit more interesting??

#4
offline Merv

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I think that's a terrific idea Steve. There is such a proliferation of cups, each one with a different sponsor's name each season, it makes it very difficult to know exactly what's going on.<P>Canvey have rarely had a problem in recent seasons playing against a team from a similar level in a different league, but that is only my very narrow experience. Perhaps supporters from other clubs could recount their experiences against clubs from different leagues so that we could get a wider picture.<P>Merv

#5
offline Simon BTFC

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Can't remember the last time a DM's side knocked us out of Cup or Trophy, in recent seasons we've beaten Grantham, Hastings, Histon (all DM eastern), Yate (since relegated from DM western). We've managed to avoid DM premier division sides ('til this season, natch) although Hednesford knocked us out of the Cup last season (extra time in the replay) in the 4th qualifying round, before relegation from the conference. <P>Not sure about the cup idea, it would have to be played saturdays as I can't see many clubs at our level wanting to travel a long way midweek. Possibly a "champions league" with the top few (say 2nd to 5th) from each league would work, this also keep the leagues interesting for longer.

#6
offline CANV EFM

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tiverton town knocked us out of the vase in the semis some 8 years ago.. i'd like to see you guys at the new lodge exact some 'ryman' revenge please images/icons/cool.gif" border="0

#7
offline David Holden

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Last year we knocked out Mangotsfield in the FA Cup but lost to Hastings (in very trying circumstances) in the trophy.<P>This year we have beaten Eastbourne Borough and Dartford.<P>We have also knocked Folkestone out of the Kent Senior Cup for the last two years, Final & Semi-final.<P>As on who has watched his team play in both leagues, I don't think that the DM is as strong as was when we were there, a lot of the good clubs from those days (Gloucster Worcester etc) seem to have fallen on hard times. (Perhaps it is the travelling)

#8
offline Guest__*

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One of the obvious differences between the two leagues is that the DM teams tend to represent a town - Crawley, Worcester, Chelmsford, etc. - whereas a lot of the Ryman teams lie within the M25. I suspect that this means that DM teams have more potential to go higher - hence Margate, Boston and Nuneaton are thriving whereas London clubs such as Ks and Hayes find it harder to progress (although Dagenham & Redbrige seem to be trying to disprove this theory).<P>I don't think this says much about the relative strengths of the two leagues. Don't forget that Margate lost at home to Banstead in last year's FA Cup (oh and Shots beat Crawley who at that time were near the top of the DM League images/icons/smile.gif" border="0 . My guess is that there isn't a huge amount to choose between the two.

#9
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave GNFC:<BR><STRONG>Last year we knocked out Mangotsfield in the FA Cup but lost to Hastings (in very trying circumstances) in the trophy.<P>This year we have beaten Eastbourne Borough and Dartford.<P>We have also knocked Folkestone out of the Kent Senior Cup for the last two years, Final & Semi-final.<P>As on who has watched his team play in both leagues, I don't think that the DM is as strong as was when we were there, a lot of the good clubs from those days (Gloucster Worcester etc) seem to have fallen on hard times. (Perhaps it is the travelling)</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>But now we'll see how you fare v Burton. Very different from the teams you have mentioned above and really a DM team, only in the Unibond because both Kettering and Hednesford got relegated from the Conference.

#10
offline carjam

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Hey Steve and Merv<P>Have you guys ever heard of THE CLUBCALL CUP..It didnt work<P>carjam

#11
offline Merv

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Hey Carjam!<P>It's nice to know you're back,<BR>It's nice to know you're back,<BR>It's nice to know you're back,<P>****-***<P>Merv

#12
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I agree generally with a fair bit said abut this subject. One way of looking at particular strengths must be on average attendance levels and I did a table previously showing the average attendance of each feeder league and divisions theirin, after removing the highest attendance in each division of the week (for obvious reasons, ie Aldershot etc).<P>The DML came out top of the Prems with the Unibond and the woeful Ryman Prem last. In respective Div 1s' the Ryman won hands down, then the DML and then the Unibond. The exercise was to prove the theory that the regionalised DML 1s' didn't work that well, although of course the area they cover is larger and hence the 2 Divisions. However, I think the regionalisation of the Ryman Div 1s' next season will see a drop in their attendance significantly and of course it begs the question as to why it is happening. It is of course in preparation of Pyramid restructuring, which I fear may turn into a farce if not handled properly.

#13
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We've fared pretty well over the last few years against DML sides. We've beaten Margate, Worcester, Hastings, Chelmsford, Bath City (twice), Tonbridge Angels, Havant & Waterlooville, Rothwell and Blakenall in FA Cup or Trophy in the last 5 years. Our only slip-up against DML opponents in recent years was a home defeat to Tiverton.<P>All in all, I have to believe that the Ryman is the better league.

#14
offline Badger

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Dr Blues, are Ryman attendances affected by the proximity of the league clubs? I know people from Harlow and Royston who are season ticket holders at Spurs, and there must be others following the other big clubs. There's also a few people I know who won't go to see their local side as they support CHelsea or whoever, but don't go to see them play anyway.

#15
offline Cressing Toad

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If FA cup results continue to go our way perhaps the thread heading should be " Is Ryman superior to Conference" Congrats Grays.So close Basingstoke. images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0

#16
offline Cressing Toad

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Yeah we have more than our fair number of metropolitan London clubs, they definitely have the lowest gates of all. as has been pointed out already the BHL have more provincial town clubs with a more focused parochial attitude to their local club. If you go to Yeovil for example and mention to anyone in a pub there if they're going to support the lads on saturday, they'll probably know you mean Yeovil town. Would the same happen ifyou made the same comment in Dagenham? They'd more likely assume you meant the hammers. i realise the two examples i made are not Ryman teams but the sentiments the same.

#17
offline Simon BTFC

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I guess many clubs in our div are suffer from "2nd club" syndrome, Billericay's attendances are boosted whenever Southend, Orient, West Ham etc are playing away as some of the fans of those clubs living in Billericay come to New Lodge instead.

#18
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No more postings from rebel brewer, wonder why?
I would say that the standard in the ryman league is slightly higher but I don't think there is that much difference, perhaps some players are put off the DM league by the traveling, clubs in that league would certainly benefit from restructuring the pyramid if and when it happens.

#19
offline GazzaBTFC

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SimonBTFC - Where did the team that beat us in the FA cup this season?<p>I think you will find they came from the Dr. Martins first division ("red faced" embarasement at that game 'cos we was outclassed on the day!).<p>If I'm wrong, blame Mark, 'cos all I heard during the game was how disgraceful we were playing and "we should beat these, they're Dr. Martins 1st division".<p>Just making a point, mate.<p>God, and we lost to Bromley last night!!!<p>WHAT HAPPENED!!!!<p>Time to polish my boots, me thinks.

#20
offline David Holden

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I think that was Chelmsford wasn't it.<p>Top ten DM Premier Division, but don't worry, we sorted them out in the Trophy images/icons/smile.gif" border="0




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