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carjam

Too Many Subjects Going On Here

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Firstly my sincere thanks to all those that have welcomed me back. You may be aware that I have been accused of giving my club a bad name by posting. That's the last thing I want to do. That's why I shant mention them by name anymore. Oh and by the way Dave, I wasn’t one of the supporters behind the goal at Grays last week shouting obscenities at the Grays team and Goalie. That's where bad names come from. Just to clear matters up, I have been a regular fan since Jim Towers banged in the equalizer against Salisbury in a 1-1 draw in I believe 1968. By now I know my stuff. <BR>Now to the point, there’s been a few points put up that need addressing.<P>Canvey must have had an easy start. I haven’t seen a worthwhile opponent just lately. The cup win at Halesowen was exceptional. They haven’t played us yet<P>Braintree supporters. I remember well the 3-3 draw. We were a poor side then, I went to the replay too. You all took the mickey out of our goalie. Just cause he played for Southend. We were a poor side and Steve Lovell player manager was ousted straight after. It's my opinion that you did us a favour. In fact if you hadn’t done that, we may have won and still be the same. So if and more likely when you loose its your own fault.<P>The club call cup was played between the 3 premier leagues and was a huge flop. Small crowds for midweek games that nobody wanted to play. It did allow me to see Colne Dynamo’s (the Canvey of the middle 80's) at Ashford, and see my own team throw away a 2 goal lead at Carshalton. <P>Finally the Southern League is a stronger league. The reason is simple. It still contains clubs from the semi-professional days of the 50's, 60's and earlier. They have better grounds and provide more away support. There are exceptions but the bottom line is that the Ryman is full of smaller previously Amateur league clubs. Dartford, Chelmsford, Gravesend, Hereford, Wimbledon, Wealdstone (of old),Worecester, Yeovil etc etc all old Southern League Giants.<P>Dagenham, Duwich (and probably your own club) and so on all former amateur league giants.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Oh and by the way Dave, I wasn’t one of the supporters behind the goal at Grays last week shouting obscenities at the Grays team and Goalie. That's where bad names come from. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't remember accusing you of anything along those lines Carjam smile.gif" border="0<P>It was the Aldershot posting (since deleted) that I thought was well over the top.<P>Anyway welcome back

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december looks to be a tough month for us carjam.,.yourselves and chesham at home then billericay and aldershot away.. 8 points from that lot would be a great result

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Sadly the real Southend United could'nt amass that many points. Wait for the dodgy pitches. See how your overpaid superstar has-beens perform then.<P>carjam rolleyes.gif" border="0

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I'm fascinated to hear fans from other clubs keep referring to the Canvey players as being overpaid. I don't know much about the financial arrangements of players contracts, but seeing as Carjam obviously does, could he enlighten us as to the pay received by the Canvey players. He obviously knows the details, otherwise he wouldn't be so arrogant as to post a line like <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> your overpaid superstar has-beens <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Come on Carjam. Let us into your obvious font of fiscal knowledge. How much are the Canvey players paid?<P>Merv

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Whilst on the subject, perhaps carjam can mention the names of all the Southend players that he insists are in our squad. Are all of the players at Gravesend purely non league and never played for the likes of Gillingham etc?<BR>Yes carjam - Lets hear your insider knowledge of the goings on at Canvey FC.

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That's a tough one, I cannot say that I know for certain just what your chaps are paid. I think its fair to say though that names like Paul Cobb,Steve Tilson, Gary Britnell, Micky Bennett, Mark Stimson, Steve Parmenter, Mick Bodly and others dont come cheap. I dont see any other team with that sort of experience in their squads at this level. Thats because the others cant afford it. Thats why you have an unfair advantage and thats why all the nuetral supporters wont want you to win. Crowds of 400 surely cannot support your squad. If you dont get sucess quickly dont expect it to last. I suppose I might be wrong...time will tell<P>Neil Gregory, John Kennedy...hardly fair is it?.<P>carjam

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Same old Carjam.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> I cannot say that I know for certain just what your chaps are paid. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You do have a habit of opening your mouth before putting your brain into gear don't you. If you are going to make sweeping statements about the financial situation of any club, at least have your facts sorted out first.<P>Merv

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I understand where carjam is coming from but nothing in life is fair - Canvey have had the advantage of being able to pay for decent players and have proven this money well spent with high profile cup sucess and serious assaults on promotion and they are there again this season showing why they take their investment in football seriously. The same could also be said of Aldershot and it certainly was of Farnborough - if you can attract money for investment then do it but like everything in life its only as stable as long as the success continues.<P>No serious investor will throw good money at a bad team or I'm afraid at a low profile team. Canvey may not be overwhelmingly supported but they have a serious football profile which attracts investment.<BR> <BR>The problem is that success brings its own problems and expectations and these all come at a price. You get/want promotion, in order to achieve you must invest in a better team - at out level of football unless you have a brilliant youth policy those players have to be brought in hence you gamble a wage bill against getting promotion or not suffering relegation. (Just ask Bedford what they think about their management not spending money this season on good quality players!) <P>It doesn't make it wrong carjam that Canvey's policy is try to buy in the best - wouldn't you swap places if the same financial investment came your way - its whats got Rushden and Diamonds where they are today.<P>On the other hand eventually the Canvey investment must pay off - either with promotion - when they will need all their "highly paid" players to keep them up or a high profile cup run which will help pay the wage bills - without one or other of these you can bet eventually the money and consequently the players will both run out. rolleyes.gif" border="0

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Assume you didnt read the rest then. I say again<P>These players could be playing within the football league. The reason they dont is because Canvey pay them more. Why dont you just admit that your club has an advantage over all the others (called loads of money)and then we can stop this silly conversation.

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You keep refering to how much the Canvey players are paid. Put up or shut up.<P>HOW MUCH ARE THEY PAID?<P>Truth is, you have no idea of how much they are paid or how that compares with the pay of players from any other club, including your own. You are just making wild assumptions. You can't back up anything you say, a thread that runs through most of your postings.<P>I agree, lets put an end to this silly conversation. You publish the facts on which you have based your assertions and then we can close the thread.<P>I'm waiting...<P>Merv

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Merv - Well done, just like most of us we are all waiting for the answers from carjam; <BR>he makes wild assumptions without the facts to back him up. He just does not consider himself to be anything other than 'I am right because I decided to say it' attitude, he has already had a supporter from another club pointing out the reality of matters but will not accept them.

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Now hang on a minute, im sure that other chap saw my side too. Your squad is a couple of divisions above ours in quality. These players do not play for nothing you know. It must be so disappointing if not embarrassing when you fail to win the league, such as last season. You guys have had this message board your own way for too long. A little bit of critism you just can’t take.<BR>I admire all fans of non-league soccer as at least they support their own local club. That’s great. What annoys me is fans that appear when a club comes into a little bit of success (or money). Where were you all a few seasons back when you were playing the likes of Southend Manor in the ESL. Watching Man Utd perhaps

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carjam - You are one ignorant person, have a look at your own squad and you will notice half a dozen players have played at some stage for a League club, also look at the Aldershot squad just about every player there has played in the League, whilst you are about it roam around the other teams at this level and you will find a fair amount of ex Leaguers, you get so many things wrong.<BR> Also, ask any non-league supporter and they will tell you that they also support a team in the top flight of football and always have done. Just why do you have such a big down on Canvey, we are not the only club around that has a person or persons that give financial backing when required. You talk absolute rubbish and just about everyone that posts on this board would most probably have the same opinion of you.<P>You have made accusations about the payments made to the players at Canvey, you have been asked to give evidence of this but you cannot deliver.<BR>You are one sad person.

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Vic,<P>A number of Shots players may have been on the books of league clubs as apprentices. As far as I am aware only a couple or three were anything like regulars in league sides.

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carjam what are you on? you say our players should be playing for pro clubs instead of in the ryman league! well if you can sort them out clubs i`m sure a few of them will sign you up as an agent. as for the supposed "glory hunters" who now watch canvey WHERE ARE THEY, i have watched canvey since the essex senior days and the same people are still the core support. every club wants new fans why knock people who turn up for the first time to watch a game, every club needs new fans yours and mine. carjam remember why you watch nonleague football and enjoy. peace out

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You will be hard pushed to find ex-league players at Gravesend at the moment. Elliot Martin and Justin Skinner are the two that I can think of right now, any others someone will have to remind me.<BR>Why do I have such a downer on Canvey...?<BR>Well I don’t really, its just Canvey supporters that keep coming back. If I did have its probably because I regard the club as pretenders. I don’t want to keep going on. You all know though that if you were promoted frankly your ground and attendances would be an embarrassment to the Conference. Of the Essex clubs only two really ever had the potential and sadly its gone wrong for both of them. That’s Chelmsford and Romford two old Southern League giants. That includes Dagenham their ground is too small.<P>CarJam

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I am going to try and be moderate in my response.<P>I think that Canvey are likely to be on a high weekly wage, they are a quality side and quality costs money. If Canvey are guilty of it, well just about every other team in this league are, that goes for Gravesend, Billericay, Braintree and Chesham, we all have squads which are not strictly sustainable by fanbase alone (with the possible exception of Aldershot).<P>This is a tightrope, the K's were paying £15,000 a week for a team who were probably worth about £5000 a week, it all went down the drain. Football at this level is a business, but not a profit making one, most teams rely upon benefactors.<P>Jeff King, not unlike Graham Westley, has made the decision to speculate to accumulate. I don't have a problem with that and neither do Canvey fans, Jeff King is also a lot less arrogant than Westkey. <P>After all did you hear anyone complain about Blackburn winning the premier league because they bankrolled the team? I was more overcome by the fact they achieved it.<P>I know and understand the point you're making carjam, but I can't see that makes any difference at all and Canvey certainly wouldn't be a disgrace to the conference. As for the daggers, I don't think anyone doubts their pedigree, their ground may be too small for your liking but once you are successful through the gates, you can change that.

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I don't think Billericay are bankrolled to a great extent, we have one of the smallest squads in the top half of the table, and (so far) one of the larger attendances. Much of the extra expenditure goes on the ground improvements, which are continuing. <P>The problem that a club that is heavily bankrolled <I>could</I> face is if the "Jack Walker" type figure leaves, leaving the club with payments it would struggle to make. Throwing money around doesn't guarantee success, so fair play to the likes of Blackburn and Canvey for what they've achieved, but it'll be interesting to see if that success can be maintained when/if Jeff King leaves Canvey.

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but gazza your saying the same thing as carjam ..you dont know how much rod moore pumps into ricay anymore than you know how much jeff king does, or who ever else is involved in the 2 clubs.. we havnt paid out for any big signings (5k for duffers years ago and cobby this year for less i believe) are the big ones..hardly veron size is it? so maybe shrewd purchasing allows more leeway on the salary front, and not spending every penney on comfy seats for the fat boys to sit down on in the ground tongue.gif" border="0

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I don't believe this guys got us running around looking at our clubs bank accounts - either you've got or you ain't - at the end of the day we will find fault with who ever gets promotion - last year Aldershot said it was because Farnborough were underwritten to the extent they could afford high wages - this year we will be saying Canvey did it cos they have millions or Aldershot did but its taken Borg five years and hundreds of thousands of pounds of investment - so what!!<P>If you do it you're up a league and your finances are no longer our/carjams excuses but another club will come along and take your place.<P>How many non league clubs make it to Div 3 with a bank balances and players wage healthier than the rest of Div 3? Nearly everyone of them cos at the end of the day money talks - teams with it will progress - teams without it will always make good Ryman premier clubs!!<P>Please lets cut this thread before we all cut our throats - or carjams - now that's a thought - hey keep this going just a tad longer!! rolleyes.gif" border="0

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SteveP Chesham - Thank you.<P>Carjam & Andy - My point regarding League players can be read on most Club websites under Player profiles; I of course, did just that, before I made my statement, its there for all to visit and read! <BR>Canvey have a quality squad, I would obviously agree with that, but they are not all ex Leaguers, have a look and read.<BR>I will say this, success is an attraction to players, it is also the same for supporters, I have supported Canvey from our Essex Senior days and I have witnessed a growing number of regular supporters at Park Lane and yes of course we get the glory hunters on the special occassions, that is human nature (annoying to us regulars) and it is something that will never change, it will happen at every club in the country even Gravesend & Northfleet.<BR>At the end of the day the glory hunters still pay their money through the turnstiles, Canvey had a lot of people through their turnstiles last season; is that not the purpose of success, need I say more?

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