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Lots of teams seem to be pandering to these youth teams,what has happened to natural selection,if a player is not up to a certain standard then they have to go down the different levels,there are many many leagues below the CCL and if thats the level your at then thats where you have to play,if a player improves then they can move up the leagues if they are asked,youth teams come and youth teams go and most of the lads fall out of senior football for a while until they are ready to compete,a whole youth team squad will have loads of players who are not ready for this level yet and its up to the managers to tell them and not destroy them before they are ready imho.

What should they do then Duncs ?  Scrap their U18 team this year or work with what they have and almost certainly discover 1 or 2 decent players.  In Windsor's case I know they lost one of their best players to Maidenhead this season.  At 16 he was in the 1st team squad last season for them.  

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The man at the helm has to introduce them into the 1st team when they are ready and not before,Kroons my fear is that a lot of good senior players are being overlooked because of this youth thing that is going on,i'm not talking about scrapping youth teams but at the moment they are getting preference because of who the managers are,its becoming a case of not what you know but who you know,thats why when i hear this bollix about rebuilding my blood boils the players are out there to have a decent side already and lots and lots will play for feck all,lets start by prioritising proven players,youth teams are getting games everywhere so why destroy some of the players when they are not ready (their time will come)we used to have reserve teams for them to come through but that system failed at a lot of clubs cos no players were coming through,how the hell then can they go straight into a 1st team if they weren't good enough for reserve teams.

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Don't disagree with any of that Duncs.  U18 teams are important though and I don't think anyone was suggesting they should be in the 1st team until they are ready.  Don't forget all the Senior players you talk about where U18 once and needed their chance.  Tough balancing act.

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Its not a tough balancing act for a proper manager mate,unfortunately if you are gonna be a senior manager then you can wave goodbye to being a freind of the players,you have to be hard on them at times and its far easier if you treat them as players and not freinds,the youth team have normally been together with the same manager since they were all kids so its a sentimental relationship as well as a freindly one,also family are often involved and those players will get even extra priority.

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Don't disagree with any of that Duncs. U18 teams are important though and I don't think anyone was suggesting they should be in the 1st team until they are ready. Don't forget all the Senior players you talk about where U18 once and needed their chance. Tough balancing act.

Also at this level its the best level to test some of the potential gems.

 

Some reserve games are competitive. But nothing matches a senior league game.

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Also at this level its the best level to test some of the potential gems.

 

Some reserve games are competitive. But nothing matches a senior league game.

Normally all the gems are long gone David,nearly impossible for anyone to slip through the net nowadays,we are up there with the best in the world when it comes to our 92 football league clubs scouting business,missing a youngster could cost a club millions so the scouts are well paid to spot them.
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The man at the helm has to introduce them into the 1st team when they are ready and not before,Kroons my fear is that a lot of good senior players are being overlooked because of this youth thing that is going on,i'm not talking about scrapping youth teams but at the moment they are getting preference because of who the managers are,its becoming a case of not what you know but who you know,thats why when i hear this bollix about rebuilding my blood boils the players are out there to have a decent side already and lots and lots will play for feck all,lets start by prioritising proven players,youth teams are getting games everywhere so why destroy some of the players when they are not ready (their time will come)we used to have reserve teams for them to come through but that system failed at a lot of clubs cos no players were coming through,how the hell then can they go straight into a 1st team if they weren't good enough for reserve teams.

 

I wouldn't quite say the reserve system failed because no players were coming through. You wouldn't expect reserve teams to churn out player after player every season, maybe 2 or 3 good ones over the space of a season - just like the youth team. In some cases that happened & in others it may not have but that may be for a number of reasons other than whether they're ready for it.

 

Unfortunately reserve football has really nose dived over the last few years, in my opinion, with a lot of teams folding as a result and I think youth football has suffered indirectly because like you say Duncs, where will the young lads who may have excelled but not be quite ready yet for whatever reason play, to carry on their learning & adapt. Since the professional clubs have changed from reserve teams to U21 teams, a lot of that traditional outlook has changed from mixing young pros with those coming back from injury to progressing their younger stars. The actual U21s, or reserves if you like, are now going out on loan to gain experience. Maybe that might be a better way forward for some of these lads

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Its not a tough balancing act for a proper manager mate,unfortunately if you are gonna be a senior manager then you can wave goodbye to being a freind of the players,you have to be hard on them at times and its far easier if you treat them as players and not freinds,the youth team have normally been together with the same manager since they were all kids so its a sentimental relationship as well as a freindly one,also family are often involved and those players will get even extra priority.

 

Although we are far from perfect and still learning ourselves I think we are on the right lines at Hartley. We make sure we dont absorb an entire 'team' into our youth set up, instead we have a squad of 22 players, relativley divided between players that are in year 11 at school (15 / 16 years old), 1st year at college (16 / 17 years old) and 2nd year college (7 / 18 years). Each year we will lose between 7 and 10 players who will be too old but we will still have another 10 or so left for a base that we then add to from our trials.

 

It means that with a constant relative young squad we wont exactly set the world on fire (if we finish half way up the Allied Counties this year thats a success) but we are aware that success is dependant on how many players we push into reserves and the first team, but as Duncs said, when they are ready. 

 

Another problem clubs have is the youth set up being divided from the firsts, and you get this amost rivalry between the two camps which just doesnt make sense as surely everyones goal is a successful first team and a good enviroment for youngsters to learn and push on. We are lucky to an extent as I am the Under 18 Manager as well as they 1st team coach and Millers / Brown regulary take sessions so we are literally one club. This helps us in turn as the few times we've played youth team boys in the first team they've been doing similar sessions ad they know what is expected of them.

 

Getting even deeper, clubs like Ascot United and Camberley Town have got it nailed to a tee, their junior set ups being almost fully integrated and they have over 70 junior teams al pushing their way through the club before they arrive at the Senior Under 18s and push on from there. I think at Junior set up's they have qualified coaches the whole way up as well which definatley helps as the basics need to be nailed by the time they reach the senior set ups.

 

Anyways I've gone off on one. In conclusion Youth set ups good - if ran properly and as part of the club and if the end goal is pushing players through, not some Dad wanting to win everything and go up the pub bragging to his mates how well little Timmy is doing,

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I wouldn't quite say the reserve system failed because no players were coming through. You wouldn't expect reserve teams to churn out player after player every season, maybe 2 or 3 good ones over the space of a season - just like the youth team. In some cases that happened & in others it may not have but that may be for a number of reasons other than whether they're ready for it.

 

Unfortunately reserve football has really nose dived over the last few years, in my opinion, with a lot of teams folding as a result and I think youth football has suffered indirectly because like you say Duncs, where will the young lads who may have excelled but not be quite ready yet for whatever reason play, to carry on their learning & adapt. Since the professional clubs have changed from reserve teams to U21 teams, a lot of that traditional outlook has changed from mixing young pros with those coming back from injury to progressing their younger stars. The actual U21s, or reserves if you like, are now going out on loan to gain experience. Maybe that might be a better way forward for some of these lads

 

It is the fact that reserve team football is dying that is making it even harder to bring the yougnsters through. Their are plenty of reserve teams out there still, but they are pretty much just a second youth team or as you say, under 21s. The idea in the past was reserve teams were good for a mix of older senior heads helping the younger ones through, look at Paul Dadson at Camberley for example. 10 years ago the Suburban League was so strong, and (although Duncs will disagree) many of the Prem sides (and even some div1 sides) would have beaten combined counties prem first teams. it was playing in teams and against teams of this standard that was the next step up the pyramid for youngsters, but now, these days are long gone. 

 

The reason is widespread, grassroutes as a whole is on the down. Since the economic crisis money is more important than ever, people just cant give up the time that they used to. Instead, they play 5 a side for an hour on a tuesday night on the local 3g on a tuesday night which is more than enough for them. Less money also means more work hours, so less time with the family that people will claw back on a saturday.

 

Your next problem, is since the set up of all these non league academies and the amount of disalussioned youngsters. They all play for Woking academy or Basingstoke Town academy or whatever and they are sold a dream, but the reality is, sadly very few, if any will make it.

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We've had this academy thing before on here and i must say my opinion on them has not changed i am still unconvinced about them,your point of view has changed quite a lot Luke since you've been involved with the 1st team set up at Hartley, i am pleased to see you've now got an insight into how a club is run from the top team.Senior 1st team players are a completely different animal to reserves and youth team players,as you progress to higher leagues you will see a remarkable change in attitude strength and Athleticism,people who go all the way are amazingly self centred and driven nothing will stop them from making it cos they won't let anything get in their way.

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Its not a tough balancing act for a proper manager mate,unfortunately if you are gonna be a senior manager then you can wave goodbye to being a freind of the players,you have to be hard on them at times and its far easier if you treat them as players and not freinds,the youth team have normally been together with the same manager since they were all kids so its a sentimental relationship as well as a freindly one,also family are often involved and those players will get even extra priority.

Disagree with most of this.

I've been an u18s manager and I am now the 1st team manager which I have been for about 2 seasons.

I'm very good friends with the majority of the 1st team players along with the reserves, which the majority are u18s from the last season or two.

I think as the manager if you have the respect from the players, which is needed massively to be successful with no budget, if you drop them to the reserves they get on with it.

I'm not saying we are perfect as a club or as a managerial team but I feel we are going in the right direction.

We have had a couple of seasons battling the relegation but we have stuck with what we believe in and that's using the youth that come through our club and I feel we are now seeing the benefits.

Yes you can not have a complete team of 17-18 year olds but a mix.

Last week our average age of our team was 21 and we finished the game with 5- 18 year olds.

So it is achievable but it doesn't happen over night.

Also we are fortunate that our players are loyal to our club as they have had offers from other clubs but choose to stay with us which we know as a club we are very lucky, as most players chase money at this level.

Duncs I don't know of the history of cove and you so it's difficult for me to comment on, but I see you have offered your help and I have no doubt you have a lot of love and passion for the club but I think if they don't take you up on the offer, you just have to wish them well and let them get on with it.

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I agree 100 per cent with a mixture of youth and experience and congratulate you on what you have done at Horley,if you read my posts carefully you are saying exactly what i am saying apart from being freinds with the players you will eventually have to distance yourself if you are gonna win stuff,as for my offer to help at Cove well i knew they wouldn't take me up mate cos they just want to slag people off and then dissapear into thin air,the offers still stands by the way so will Cove fc be brave enough to answer me,we shall see.

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Never judge a person on how they look.Did the said Officials enter the bar after the game in question? In my experience most do,and are more than willing to explain decisions made during the game.

 

 

I quite agree with your second sentence, Smudger.

 

In the old days at Meadowbank, I was often one on the first people to arrive at the ground, and took it upon myself to meet and greet the officials, make sure they got a hot drink and have a quick chat.

 

Generally speaking they always entered the bar afterwards and would be supplied with a drink and refreshments.

 

OK  -  I agree, any official can have an off day on the pitch but most man up to it afterwards in the bar.

 

The fact in the Premiership that they are more than often being assessed must put pressure on the younger up and coming officials, though generally, as I have said before, even assessors were mostly friendly and chatty and used to joing the officials and club officials in the bar.

Edited by Big J R
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I agree 100 per cent with a mixture of youth and experience and congratulate you on what you have done at Horley,if you read my posts carefully you are saying exactly what i am saying apart from being freinds with the players you will eventually have to distance yourself if you are gonna win stuff,as for my offer to help at Cove well i knew they wouldn't take me up mate cos they just want to slag people off and then dissapear into thin air,the offers still stands by the way so will Cove fc be brave enough to answer me,we shall see.

Well today really surprises me, I thought cove we're going to stick with the youngsters and what will be will be.

 

But I've never witnessed anything like it in my life of ccl, I go to do the team sheet with the refs and the young lady doing coves team sheet says give me 5 mins, yes no problem. I then go on the pitch to see the lady asking the players there names to put on the team sheet!!

I then see spencer days car in the car park!! Farnborough have no game!!

As a manager you then think shit!! This isn't cove.

I then get the team sheet and check from recent coves players 7-8 different names.

I then check farnborough website and 6 names on there players list are playing for cove.

But I've got to say we were outstanding today and even though it was only 0-1 to us at about 60 mins we eventually won 0-4 and should of won 7-8 nil.

Really proud of our young lads today. Outstanding.

Really not sure where cove go from here!!

Best quote from there manager who I felt sorry for as didn't even know the players names to get messages across was' we are making them look good'

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Well today really surprises me, I thought cove we're going to stick with the youngsters and what will be will be.

 

But I've never witnessed anything like it in my life of ccl, I go to do the team sheet with the refs and the young lady doing coves team sheet says give me 5 mins, yes no problem. I then go on the pitch to see the lady asking the players there names to put on the team sheet!!

I then see spencer days car in the car park!! Farnborough have no game!!

As a manager you then think shit!! This isn't cove.

I then get the team sheet and check from recent coves players 7-8 different names.

I then check farnborough website and 6 names on there players list are playing for cove.

But I've got to say we were outstanding today and even though it was only 0-1 to us at about 60 mins we eventually won 0-4 and should of won 7-8 nil.

Really proud of our young lads today. Outstanding.

Really not sure where cove go from here!!

Best quote from there manager who I felt sorry for as didn't even know the players names to get messages across was' we are making them look good'

Good win then HTFC,by the way mate my offer to help was only tongue in cheek so please don't think i am gonna lose any sleep,good luck to Cove i hope they can turn things around,sounds like the manager may have departed and someone else is giving it a go.
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The match report from our draw at Bedfont Sports is now here:

 

http://www.eefconline.co.uk/Fix2015.16-27.html

 

Im curious weather we had your ref today.

 

Now before I start he was not the reason we lost a tight game with CB Hounslow as he gave decisions against them too. It was just a baffling performance which overshadowed a good fixture.

 

Offsides were flagged. But he preferred for throw ins to be taken.

 

Fouls going the wrong way and then incredibly card happy second half every foul brought a card. Felt for a cb player who got a card for an accidental trip.

 

We the received a freekick. Everyone moved to let us take it. Ref then changed his mind. Gave them a freekick and we had a player sent off for an apparant stamp. The linesman didnt see it either and we were all scratching our heads. Felt for the player sent off who wasnt near play when the freekick was given which made it an even more baffling decision.

 

As I say this was for both teams and in no way will I put any blame his way for the result of the game. It was just incredible to witness.

 

For the game itself. Even bar 1 goal and thats all it can take so credit to CB.

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Coming on here blaming refs is well dodgy FGFC best to just keep stumb and leave it to us supporters.

I dont think I layed any blame his way for he result.

 

Tbf was right result. Was a good tight game. They scored. We didnt. Worthy winners. Refs performance didnt make it this way. A resilient cb backline and a well worked set piece gave them the spoils.

 

All the best to them for rest of season.

Edited by FrimleyGreenFC
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I dont think I layed any blame his way for he result.

 

Tbf was right result. Was a good tight game. They scored. We didnt. Worthy winners. Refs performance didnt make it this way. A resilient cb backline and a well worked set piece gave them the spoils.

 

All the best to them for rest of season.

ok well coming on here berating refs is not gonna help,just a bit of friendly advice FGFC thats all.
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