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Next season's FA Cup starts on...

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Could be first real game of the season,unless there is a first league game in July. How many leagues will elect for the early start. Do the F A care about the grass roots clubs, the F A Cup is a real chance for some clubs to earn some real money.

Edited by Tel

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What's the problem? None of us will win the FA cup or benefit massively. Is the first league game less important than the tainted trophy? Semi finals at wembley final at daft o'clock, it's not the cup it was sadly. First game in the league is as important as the last' unless you are planning mid table mediocrity

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What's the problem? None of us will win the FA cup or benefit massively. Is the first league game less important than the tainted trophy? Semi finals at wembley final at daft o'clock, it's not the cup it was sadly. First game in the league is as important as the last' unless you are planning mid table mediocrity

 

Quite so, Jeff !

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The FA Cup provides clubs wih the opportunity to secure some substantial prize money. Winning a couple of rounds could earn you enough to cover the end of seson pitch rennovations. mMost clubs would like to have played a couple of league games prior to the EP round of the FA Cup

Most clus pre-saason preparations are governed by the recovery of their pitch from the end of season works. Pitch maintenance programmes will have been worked out with a start date of 13th August or 6th August in mind. To have no advanced notice of the posibility of a 30th July start date may mean some pithces will be under prepared or even not ready for the start of the season. If this is the case dont be surprised if those pitcghs suffer badly when the bad weather arives.

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The FA Cup provides clubs wih the opportunity to secure some substantial prize money. Winning a couple of rounds could earn you enough to cover the end of seson pitch rennovations. mMost clubs would like to have played a couple of league games prior to the EP round of the FA Cup

Most clus pre-saason preparations are governed by the recovery of their pitch from the end of season works. Pitch maintenance programmes will have been worked out with a start date of 13th August or 6th August in mind. To have no advanced notice of the posibility of a 30th July start date may mean some pithces will be under prepared or even not ready for the start of the season. If this is the case dont be surprised if those pitcghs suffer badly when the bad weather arives.

The Combined Counties have always started on the first weekend of August. So if clubs are not ready for that then they are at fault. Whether it's a league game or and FA Cup game makes no difference. All clubs should be up and ready to start competitively on the first weekend in August.

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I guess it's just not the done thing . I understand the game moves on but where is the line drawn . Should we propose that the opening 6 games are all cup competitions so fixtures secretary's know where they are at for league requirements having got answers to certain questions regarding the FA Cup FA Vase League Cups County Cups ?

Surely Cups are played around the league season and whatever the changes at the top end your FA Cup dream should last after 4 45 on the first week of the season.

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What's the problem? None of us will win the FA cup or benefit massively. Is the first league game less important than the tainted trophy? Semi finals at wembley final at daft o'clock, it's not the cup it was sadly. First game in the league is as important as the last' unless you are planning mid table mediocrity

Sorry Jeff but that's a stupid statement. If you feel that way, why enter in the first place?

 

Look at the financial rewards that Hartley Wintney made from their recent Cup runs and almost certainly Hanworth Villa a couple of years back too. It's far more important than a league match. Ask Camberley who got beat 5-0 at home to Horley on opening day. You could argue that they missed out on promotion by three points but they had all season to retrieve those points and indeed, did so before losing at the end. With the Cup there is rarely a second chance.

 

It is the biggest match the clubs are likely to have all season and regardless of whether teams are "ready" for the first week in August, you never really know how good you are until you have played a couple of matches at least. It's why Alan does such a good job in getting the fixtures in before the Cup starts, something I'm sure that EVERY club is grateful for.

 

In fact, this is the most annoying and telling factor here. It's that the FA didn't even consult with the Step Five Leagues. They didn't even give them a clue that it would be moved forward a fortnight from last season. If they had, maybe it would have been a little easier to prepare and we may well have had an earlier start to the league season, but many friendlies have already been arranged and it is the fact that the FA didn't even consider the knock on effect that tells you how little these bodies actually care about grass roots football.

 

They sit there banging on about how great they are and what good work they are doing in diversity, youth, ladies football and equality but that's because it looks good for them to do so. It boosts their politically correct CVs and makes them look caring and inclusive. In the grand scheme of things, they don't care about Step Five or Six. We don't bring in enough money for them and are little more than pub sides to them. This proves it.

 

Is there scope for starting the league on Tuesday 2nd August? Just a thought. It doesn't have to be a Saturday. It also means one less midweek trip / postponement in December.

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Would permission from the F.A.be needed to start the season earlier though? They would probably object in my opinion,saying that it would give CCL Clubs an advantage,over other Leagues.

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I don't believe we require permission to start on any particular date, although the FA do tell us the date by which we have to finish.

 

I have now had views from many of our clubs and, having raised the matter with other Step 5/6 League Secretaries, I have been gathering their views as well.  With one possible exception, most of the other leagues who have responded are as aggrieved as most of us, especially as there was no consultation whatsoever at our level and also because of the very late notice.  Clubs and leagues could at least have prepared had the situation been known earlier.

 

For your information, David Morrall, who is the Chairman of the NE Counties League and also the Chairman of the Step 5/6 Focus Group has asked all the Step 5/6 Leagues to give him their views, which will border on the unanimous I would think and he will take the matter up with relevant people at the FA in a  bid to get matters changed for future seasons.

 

The most popular option, and we are keen to help clubs as much as possible, is that we stick to Sat 13 August as the first full opening day for league matches but with the proviso that for any clubs who wish to get a league match in before the FA Cup, we will try to provide one w/c 1 August and maybe w/c 8 August.

 

We will make a final decision at a Board meeting on 13 June and advise club secretaries the next day.  We shall not though be asking clubs to play on the last Saturday in July

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Surely all Clubs would like an earlier start,as friendly fixtures have nothing riding on them at all.Having an earlier start,would surely get more supporters through the gates as well. A WIN WIN SOLUTION.

 

Thanks Alan for your very sensible reply,at least the League is on the case.

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If friendlies have nothing on them Smudge, why do we have them?

 

I think that Managers will tell you that they are quite important in the grand scheme of things. Some would like more while others are happy with three or four, but they do serve a purpose.

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To be honest my moan about the FA cup was based on seeing that debacle the Saturday before, superbowl gone bad, National Anthem mucked up, late kick off.

Plus Dorking FC not in it anyway.

 

I agree with Mal though, clubs and teams should be ready for start of season league or cup. Its the same for both teams in the cup after all.

 

I'm surprised some value the FA cup above the league, it didnt get HW enough cash to sort their ground,and possibly cost Camberley towards season end.

 

Why do we enter it Rich? Because it's meant to be a prestige competition, which I'm afraid is devalued now.

Hopefully when we return to Meadowbank we'll be back in FA cup, but I wouldn't want to treat a league game as a warm-up for it.

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To be honest my moan about the FA cup was based on seeing that debacle the Saturday before, superbowl gone bad, National Anthem mucked up, late kick off.

Plus Dorking FC not in it anyway.

 

I agree with Mal though, clubs and teams should be ready for start of season league or cup. Its the same for both teams in the cup after all.

 

I'm surprised some value the FA cup above the league, it didnt get HW enough cash to sort their ground,and possibly cost Camberley towards season end.

 

Why do we enter it Rich? Because it's meant to be a prestige competition, which I'm afraid is devalued now.

Hopefully when we return to Meadowbank we'll be back in FA cup, but I wouldn't want to treat a league game as a warm-up for it.

 

Absolute tripe!  Hartley didn't receive planning permission re improvements in time which, I hear, are now underway.

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You may well be correct, Chris, I based my opinion on what I read on their website, saying they needed volunteers and sponsors for materials for work to obtain ground grading, so I assumed the cup money had already gone. 

 

Good luck to HWFC, hope all goes well for them.

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"It is with significant regret that we have to announce that the dictates of the ground grading panel will preclude us from pursuing our aim to gain promotion this season. Visits and advice from the ground grading committee have necessitated our reconsidering the viability of completing the necessary improvements in time for next season and, morehartley_wintney.jpeg importantly, by the end of March 2016.


"Whilst the majority of works were known, the requirement to enclose the ground within the boundary of the established hedging is at this moment prohibitive.


"The Club are fully committed to carrying out the necessary works, commencing in the close season, to ensure that Hartley Wintney FC can approach the future with confidence and can give the players and management the stage which their efforts deserve. This will allow us to seek promotion next term, should our league position allow.

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I don't understand this "issue".

 

In the grand scheme of things it's a game of football where the conditions are the same for both teams. The fact it's the FA Cup rather than CCL seems irrelevant.

 

What am I missing?

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I don't understand this "issue".

 

In the grand scheme of things it's a game of football where the conditions are the same for both teams. The fact it's the FA Cup rather than CCL seems irrelevant.

 

What am I missing?

 

Well, clubs don't get four figures in prize money for winning their first League game, but they do for winning an Extra Preliminary Round game in The FA Cup.  Consequently, no one wants to go into the Cup "cold", which is why the idea of an FA Cup tie being the first competitive game of the season has so many people throwing their hands up.

 

As has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread, Camberley lost their first game of the season just finished 5-0, but they went on to do alright in both the League and several Cups. Had that been an FA Cup match rather than a League game, the season might have panned out differently in a number of different ways. 

 

Player turnover at this level (and the two either side) is so high that even the final pre-season game could see clubs field a different side to that which they might name after a couple of games with something riding on them, which is why clubs prefer to have got one or two League matches under their belt before their first FA Cup tie.

 

Jeff is right that no non-league side will win The FA Cup, but the money, publicity and memories generated by a good run can transform a club. Ask Krooner of this parish about the time Camberley went to Griffin Park and both clubs changed their kits. Ask anyone at Hartley Wintney or Hanworth Villa about their runs to the Fourth Qualifying Round in recent seasons and they'll talk about the excitement of the games and the bigger crowds (ergo, more money again). Clubs might not get that experience if they are playing their first "proper" game in the Cup.

 

What hasn't been discussed is why The FA have brought the qualifying rounds forward.  Last season, the Preliminary Round fell on the August Bank Holiday Saturday, so replays wiped out Bank Holiday Monday League games, causing much moaning from clubs about the loss of local derby gate receipts. To avoid this, they have brought forward the first couple of rounds by a week. This would be laudable, had they bothered to run the idea past the Step 5 & 6 Leagues first. Instead, it just looks like Steps 1-4 have been handed another advantage, even if that wasn't the intention.

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But all teams playing in that round will have the same lead in time to get the squads together surely so how does one club have an advantage over another?

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The Non League Paper has an article on this tomorrow.

Also I am led to believe some Leagues are bringing their start date forward to give their clubs a league fixture prior to the FA Cup as been the norm in past seasons.

 

As Beano posted it seems the higher the Step the club is the better the FA will look after you

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Ah, so when the draw is made, is there a chance that our teams will be drawn against a club from another league who have already had their 1st league game because the start of their season was brought forward?

 

Is that the point I am missing? Because that would indeed be ridiculous.

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A few mentions of Camberley losing 5-0 at home first game , and how that would have been bad if it was an FA cup game and may have changed their season.

 

I was surprised to see they lost in the FA Cup EP anyway. 

Had they beaten Horley FC first game they would have been promoted. ( assuming everything else being equal).

 

 

So be ready for the first game of the season league or cup. 

 

FA cup 6th August, chance to play a league game week before.

 

It's two months away, not two weeks...

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We have asked the league for a midweek league game ahead of the FA Cup on 6th August.

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Ah, so when the draw is made, is there a chance that our teams will be drawn against a club from another league who have already had their 1st league game because the start of their season was brought forward?

 

Is that the point I am missing? Because that would indeed be ridiculous.

 

Yes; according to the NLP, some leagues will now start on 30th July, allowing their clubs two matches before their FA Cup ties. That's a significant advantage over an opponent that has only had friendlies. It's all very well saying "So be ready for the first game of the season league or cup.", (and that is a valid point) but it is a fact that - as useful as friendlies are -  competitive games ARE different, whether you are a player, official or supporter. The atmosphere changes, the intensity is different. Sometimes, it's hard to make the transition (Camberley at Horley being a case in point). And even really good sides sometimes need a few matches to hit their stride. Anyone remember what happened the season Manchester United lost their first League game at Aston Villa and Alan Hansen said "you can't win anything with kids"?

 

Devalued by the bigger clubs or not, The FA Cup is the oldest football competition in the world and 736 clubs from The Premier League down to Step 6 participate in it each season (this number could and would be greater if the format were tweaked). Of those, all bar 92 are non-league sides, yet only 32 clubs from outside that elite 92 can reach the First Round Proper. Some 368 clubs play in the Extra-Preliminary Round; virtually none would want their FA Cup tie to be the first match of their season with "something on it".

 

That's the point here. I don't think the earlier date would even be a problem had the Leagues known about it in advance and been able to plan accordingly. It's the sudden change, with all the implications it has for fixture scheduling, pitch renovations and everything else, which has caused the problem.

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