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littlehampton

Chichester City FC / FA Cup 3rd Qualifying Round

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72W, as I have said before, I am physically unable to attend as many games as I would like. But over time I have learn't to rely on the posts of others who I believe give an objective view of what they have seen . From these I then draw my own conclusions. Which I must say is in itself you might find quite laughable.

However, having paid up front for my season ticket in the knowledge I will only use it on a few occasions I feel justified giving my views. The fact you may disagree or that you feel I am in no position to express them is your choice. But when you have the same number of years behind you, having seen my first game in 1947*, I hope you are extended the same privilege. 

In answer to "Obsv" of course I am up beat when we win as is most of what I read. Normally these posts leave very little more to be added.  To repeat my analogy on human behaviour " that everyone appreciates an excellent meal meal but only a few will vocally criticise a bad one". I must admit that now at my age I tend to fall amongst the latter, especially when I have paid for it. 

*(NB. Please no clever comments from others about the EFTC being founded in 2000+ as I have always considered it's origins were founded in Enfield FC)

 

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Afternoon all, 48hrs on from our FA Cup exit, down here on the South Coast, I have just been reading the latest postings relating to our performance and the result. Understandably, after our excellent wins against Rushden & Diamonds and Braintree in the previous rounds, and encouraging league form, most supporters, including myself, expected us to get something from this match. My optimism was based on what I saw in CCFC's replay at Oaklands Park.

On Saturday we saw a very even first half, with chances at both ends. After the interval, Chichester, a talented young side, pushed forward, caused Town a number of problems, and eventually got their just reward with a goal in the last 5-minutes, when Town looked like they might hold-out for a replay. So, disappointment all round, but having lost Marc Weatherstone before the kick-off, and Lewis Taaffe to a hamstring injury shortly after the start, this certainly did not help our cause, as both are influential players. In the end, it was not our day, but we have secured 15K prize money, hopefully with more to come from a run in the FA Trophy.

Well done to all the Town faithful who made the long journey down to Chichester to support our guys. Shame your loyalty wasn't rewarded on this occasion. We live to fight another day!

Finally, well done Barney on an excellent post, and thanks for your kind comments. Like many other Town supporters, I fail to understand why certain people (you know who I mean!) vanish off this Forum, and never comment when we are winning, then suddenly re-appear to unfairly snipe at our Manager when we have lost a match. I would remind them that this was our first away defeat of the season, and we are currently 4th in the IPL table, just 3-points behind the leaders with a game in hand.

 

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Posted (edited)

Not all have vanished LH but I have no wish to repeat myself. All I would say is that I greatly admire your continued optimism and long may it last even if I still remain a cynic.

Of course anyone who does not admit that so far our season has goes well is not in the real world. But most of that has come from the reliance on the performances of individual players. My concern is that we do not seem to have an integrated squad which can operate to a proficient level when these players are missing. By now after 2+ plus years one would have thought that the manager would have created a TEAM who are  disciplined enough to conform to his pattern, with fringe players also able to fit into it when required. That is what good management is usually judge on. Otherwise why have a manager instead just have a procurer of players.

However, if we continue to win in the same way and come out in the top 5 I will be the first to enjoy the glory and accept that perhaps I have made a misjudgement . We will have to wait and see.

Let's hope the wins re-continue at Cray this week et seq. If it does I promise to join you in your "euphoria". ... Touche!!!

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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Mo gone Josh Gone who else will go and when will we find out, no news still run this club the way it should be we do have a right to know what's going  as we are a fans OWNED club

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Posted (edited)

Point taken OT. In the words of another "it makes me laugh", I wonder if the manager knows?? 

Not surprised at the news of Mo performance. Looking at Boltons other buys he will be in the 1st team soon.

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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Mo was being 'rewarded a bit more than we would like' financially  to play for Town this season..Andy Leese words.

Are we saying these payments were not part of a contract.The sort that Billy and a few others are on? 

And if he was on a contract why did we not receive a Transfer fee?

 

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Posted (edited)

I know its a bit late now but Mo was suspended for our cup game how come he played for Bolton's U 23's before that

Edited by old towner

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40 minutes ago, lovely stuff said:

Mo was being 'rewarded a bit more than we would like' financially  to play for Town this season..Andy Leese words.

Are we saying these payments were not part of a contract.The sort that Billy and a few others are on? 

And if he was on a contract why did we not receive a Transfer fee?

 

Not on contract

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8 minutes ago, Wildlife rescue said:

The suspension comes into play 7 days after the offence I believe.

thanks for clearing that bit up

7 minutes ago, exiled down south said:

Not on contract

just a well paid non contracted player

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It does surprise me when supporters moan that when these good players get better offers from other clubs they leave. We should just make sure we get the best out of them when they are with us and wish them well for the future. This is a situation which all clubs at every level finds itself, when playing budgets are stretched. That’s the reality of non league football.

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I remember a much smaller club than ETFC (Hoddesdon) having every player on nominal contracts ( In the 90's it was something like £5 a week) just so this situation did not occur if a bigger club tried to sign one of their players.

I'd be happier if every Town player  committed to a nominal seasons contract before being allowed to play for us.I'd also be happy to lose the services of those players not willing to commit to playing for us for a full season.

I feel this would also help the fast turnover of players at this level and the lack of connection between the fans and playing squad that this causes.

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Players do actually commit for the season,but then we have the 7 day approach(that has been discussed before).I would prefer a transfer system like the premier League,2 windows,outside of that players can only be transferred to lower League clubs.

But it's only ever going to be like it is at the moment.

What does not help the situation is agents.

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48 minutes ago, 72wemblyfinal said:

Players do actually commit for the season,but then we have the 7 day approach(that has been discussed before).I would prefer a transfer system like the premier League,2 windows,outside of that players can only be transferred to lower League clubs.

But it's only ever going to be like it is at the moment.

What does not help the situation is agents.

I thought the 7 day approach only applied to registered (but non-contracted) players.

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Posted (edited)

I do think you have missed OT point,MTH.  I have interpreted that it is his way of expressing his amazement in the lack of business sense being shown. Otherwise your "good" players on higher wages will come in one door and out the other as they please. If you are happy with that then as a member I am not.

There seems to be a miss conception in the use of contracts. Although not personally involved when my firm were processing clubs going into administration, I was shown some players contracts, invariable they had a get out clause in favour of the player. The safeguard for the Club (the business) was that they retained the right to seek a fee for his transfer so long as it they paid him and the player agreed to the transfer. Far better than most normal employment contracts.

 

NB .. I raised these point about 4 years ago, when the subject was last raised, so please don't bring up the clubs financial status again. The principle applies to all businesses huge or small. Also please no more advice to get more involved. My interest in the Club end purely as a supporter and a member and as such the ability to comment on this forum.                          

 

 

 

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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Caveat: I'm no expert on this, so this post is very much as I understand things, and may well be a long way from the reality - apologies if this is the case.

As much as I'd love to see a much lower turnover of players at our level and more loyalty, as the system stands I think that we are doing as much as can be reasonably expected to retain players. If a good young player who has ambitions to player higher up in the leagues doesn't want to sign a contract with us, we can't force them to. Doing so would effectively mean that we hold their registration, and can ask for a fee when an opportunity arises to move up. What's in it for the player in this scenario? Assuming they are good enough to play higher, very little - a club higher up would be much less likely to take a punt on them for a fee when they could take a punt on a non-contracted player instead, without the risk of financial outlay.

Of course players that we want on contract, but who aren't willing to sign could be shown the door, but does that really help us? Personally, I'd rather have exciting young players like Mo (or Corey, or whoever) for a period of time at the club where they can help us, and accept that they will at some point move on as they're ambitious to play higher. The alternative is them playing on a non-contract basis for one of our rivals, strengthening them in the process. Of course the whole situation is frustrating, but it's a fact of life for a club like ours unfortunately.

To the point about introducing a club policy of players signing nominal contracts of £5 a week, I only see that being detrimental to us - there's little or nothing in it for the players, especially for the good young ambitious players mentioned above, so why would they come to Town over a rival that didn't have this policy? The only way things are likely to change in this respect would be if the whole transfer system was overhauled for all clubs, so that every non-league club had to do this, effectively giving players no alternative (and don't get me wrong LS - I think this would be great, the idea itself is good, it's just that I don't think any club can go it alone on this).

The players that we do have on contract I think we've have about right - they're players that are nearer the end of their careers who have already played higher and aren't likely to do so again, so the incentive of stability of income and employment that comes with a contract outweighs the fact that if they were to move on, it would involve a fee. Putting these guys on a contract effectively stops them moving on should someone turn up wanting to offer them loads of money, but on the flip side, as I understand it, means that we have to pay them regardless of whether they're playing well, in form, injured etc.

Just my two penneth as always, nice to see some healthy debate, but I don't think the club can be held to blame here for what goes on as it's much more a systemic issue. Lastly, I would strongly recommend supporters get along to one of the members meetings to speak with the board and the management about our policy on contracted players - they're clearly going to have the facts (unlike me), and as someone said upthread: we're a members owned club, so we have a right to be able to question these things and get honest and factual answers. Certainly the club website or an unofficial forum like this isn't the place for the board to be formally discussing these issues.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Barney for your interesting reply, your are not a long way from reality, far from it. Because I too could be wrong in my understanding of OT's remark. If right I was trying to expound my interpretation of what I think he meant. It was an answer to another's inferred accusation of  " having a moan again" jibe. 

As you have asked, all I can say in answer to the question you have raised regarding a player wishing to leave etc ,is that it all depends on what is written in the signed agreement. However, both sides usually want some security. But you are quite right there is no obligation for anyone to enter into a contract. I tend to feel that a lot of people seem to think contracts have to be lengthy, but a simple agreement may only be a few short sentences, so long as it meets each parties needs. Take a Bank Note for example, which is a simple form of contract being a promissory note for payment.

On the point being discussed, I find it hard to accept that if you acquire,what you consider to be a good assets(player) and you are willing to pay above the norm for his services it seems sensible to want some return. The example I gave in my previous post was just a simple two way agreement. 

I believe there is another point one has to consider and that is the effect that the spinning door syndrome  creates by the easy through passage for higher paid players, on the remaining squad. After all it is a team game and the team is the most important. Not the high earner who may leave at any time. It's the rest of the team that have to pick up the pieces.    

 I am sure what we have been discussing has already been considered many times by the Board. Similarly in dealing with with the clubs finances. But since I have never seen a set of it's Accounts or even a simple Annual Income and Expenditure statement I can only base my observations on what I see, am told or read on this forum. Or perhaps I have I missed something? I am member of a number of social and charitable societies, to which I subscribe. Whether I attend or not I receive every year a copy of each Treasurer's Financial Statement. 

Perhaps we should now get back to "Football"  matters before I bore everyone to death. Look forward to reading your posts in the future.

By the way I see you're getting lots of approbation from W72 , perhaps now's the time to get worried.!!!! Only kidding!!!!!

 

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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18 minutes ago, 4wembleyfinals said:

However, both sides usually want some security. But you are quite right there is no obligation for anyone to enter into a contract.

And there's the rub... ultimately the above mentioned young, ambitious and talented players don't want or need security - they want as few obstacles as possible in the way of them progressing their career, and moving up the pyramid. This is, I suspect, exactly what their agents are advising them to do.

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Posted (edited)

Possibly so Barney, obviously I am getting too old but when I was first employed I didn't expect to be senior partner over night. Not because I didn't have ambition but because I wasn't qualified then. If management is agreeing to only players terms, at this level, then the game can only go backwards. But then for some time I have believed, both as a player as well a a retired commercial professional, old players who become club managers should stick to playing matters and not be let near any players financial and legal agreements. No wonder so many clubs go bust.

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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I think we've found some common ground here - it's a sad state of affairs, but in this day and age, the players (and ultimately the player's agent whose advice they follow) hold the power. From an agents perspective, do they stand to gain more by having one or two of their players move up the league and make it to the big time (with associated cut of wages, signing on fees etc), or have a portfolio of players playing at Isthmian League level and getting a cut of their earnings there? Clearly a rhetorical question, and a thoroughly depressing situation - everything is geared towards agents making money, and the good young players that fans at clubs like Town love to see on the pitch will move on with very little thought of loyalty. Unless something changes with the system, this is the way it's likely to be.

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2 hours ago, 4wembleyfinals said:

 I am sure what we have been discussing has already been considered many times by the Board. Similarly in dealing with with the clubs finances. But since I have never seen a set of it's Accounts or even a simple Annual Income and Expenditure statement I can only base my observations on what I see, am told or read on this forum. Or perhaps I have I missed something? I am member of a number of social and charitable societies, to which I subscribe. Whether I attend or not I receive every year a copy of each Treasurer's Financial Statement. 

4WF the club posts its accounts on the website (as does the ETFCSS). The most recent published accounts (2017-2018) are there. Look under the "Information" tab, then "Documents".

Some will disagree but I think the board do a good job in sharing relevant information at the right time. The website must be factual. No place for Trump-like speculation there. This forum, however, is perfect for "locked and loaded" speculation 😜

Quote

 

 

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