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4wembleyfinals

Retention of players for clubs like ours.

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At Father Jack's request/admonishment I would like to move  the discussions from our last game to the question of players. With OT's last post particularly in mind regarding retention of players.

I am sure OT that many of us worry about losing players. In fact I wrote on this forum several years ago, shortly after the signing of the lease for the revitalised QE2 Stadium, that steps should be taken safe guard this asset by ensuring we retained  team efficient enough to keep people coming through the turn styles. It was essential therefore for those players considered valuable for the progression of the club to be given a contract. I suggested for a club like ours it would require all members to either increase their subscriptions or consider other finding  ear marked specifically for this purpose. 

I was told in no uncertain terms by many members that we can't afford any more. Indeed it was probably true then and now. 

However, we have just raised £11K plus for several floodlighting bulbs. Obviously this was regarded as a priority to improve the playing conditions and for spectators. But what if we let our team disappear again and crowds start to diminish, what then???  That will always be the reality for a club like ours. 

It is interesting to see that Welling are trying to raise £10K for the sole purpose of attracting new players, I doubt that they will be on 7 day notices.

However, before I am invited to partake in an additional funding schemes etc or  " to put or shut up"  I must state I would like to but I  am an entirely different person as I was then, especially physically.  But I would within reason subscribe if the scheme was sound. 

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It is a sad fact that in football - money rules.

I am sure that many people contribute to the finance of the club, as they should as owners. However, football is a game and the players start to play football because they enjoy it.If they become proficient they can rise to a higher level. As a fan owned club we cannot afford to throw money at the players and join the rat race that many clubs have in the past. Find a rich financier and use their money to raise the club to a higher level. Then sooner or later that rich financier gets fed up, dies or goes broke and then the club slips down the leagues. This has happened to Maidstone, Barnet and to many other clubs too numerous to list.

We can only survive and hopefully grow by paying players within our budget. Hopefully we can have a few young stars who can make a name for themselve at the professional level, as Paul Furlong did at the old club, but the nature of the game is to get a few wise old heads with the experience to train the youngsters and those youngsters, we hope, then make a name for themselves at a higher level.

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As has been mentioned before, it is my understanding that young, talented and ambitious players will not sign contracts at clubs at ETFC's level as it may jeopardise a move further up the pyramid should a League Club take an interest. Its sad, because I certainly remember EFC making very good money from the sale of players to league sides. Many of these young players seem to have representation these days. You only have to look at the recent acquisitions to see that they have 'agents'. I can't imagine they'd allow their clients to sign contracts. So that only leaves us with the more experienced players who might have an interest in signing contractual terms.

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Both Steph and CC arguments are completely valid  reasons why most supporter owned clubs, with a few exceptions, find it so hard to move forward.  

In my original post, back when,  I expressed the same view as Steph in what it can mean for Non league teams to be owned by a sole owner. 

However,  we are what we are. At that time what I was trying to say was that we must find ways of keeping the club's team at it's current level in order  to protect what we had. Otherwise just investing in our surrounds becomes pointless.  Having a good stadium with no team does not equal increased revenue. Unless we become a sub-letting agency. This is the balancing act.

Mind you we have, for the immediate, to get passed this retched virus first!!!

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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It still irritates me that we were not rewarded for developing players who progressed from our club to the professional ranks. Corey Whiteley, Mohammadu Faal and Josh Davison spring to mind. At our level, most clubs can't afford to finance more than 1 or 2 players on "full" contracts, this is a simple fact and is not going to change. I think the FA should make it mandatory that the non-league club from which the player has progressed (or has spent the longest in developing that player) receive a fixed amount - say GBP 25,000 - when the player (she or he) signs a full-time contract. This fee should be paid from a ring-fenced amount allocated from the hundreds of million of pounds that the Premiership receives from TV broadcast fees every year.

Every single football supporter knows that the Premiership has failed miserably to cascade a fair and reasonable proportion of this enormous windfall down the rest of the football pyramid. This would be one way of doing it. It is similarly scandalous that the Premiership still hasn't agreed a bail-out package for struggling football league clubs. As Ian Holloway vented so memorably, it's because they are all selfish bas**rds, interested only in making profit at the expense of the game. More and more supporters have had enough of this approach - it will be interesting to see attendance numbers if/when spectators are allowed back in to the Premiership.

One of the few successful measures that the FA has put in place over the last year or two in an effort to achieve the same thing is to increase prize money for the FA Cup and FA Trophy early rounds, which has worked well. 

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Agree with the sentiments but, at our level, being able to swiftly replace departures is perhaps more important than over stressing about retention. In this respect I feel Andy Leese has done a reasonable job in difficult circumstances. We seem to be a club with a fair measure of success with player loyalty based on those who have either stayed or returned e.g Nathan, Jon Muleba, Harold, Percy. The exception of course being the Quinton exodus of which enough has been said. 

I do feel, rather like 4WF, that we should aim to be competitive on payments within our division. notwithstanding that we can never match the likes of Billericay of a couple of seasons back. Having to reduce player payments as we did this year should be the last resort. If we were fund raising to restore normal payment levels, I for one would do what I could to contribute.

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24 minutes ago, 55 seasons said:

 

24 minutes ago, 55 seasons said:

Agree with the sentiments but, at our level, being able to swiftly replace departures is perhaps more important than over stressing about retention. In this respect I feel Andy Leese has done a reasonable job in difficult circumstances. We seem to be a club with a fair measure of success with player loyalty based on those who have either stayed or returned e.g Nathan, Jon Muleba, Harold, Percy. The exception of course being the Quinton exodus of which enough has been said. 

I do feel, rather like 4WF, that we should aim to be competitive on payments within our division. notwithstanding that we can never match the likes of Billericay of a couple of seasons back. Having to reduce player payments as we did this year should be the last resort. If we were fund raising to restore normal payment levels, I for one would do what I could to contribute.

I for one would do what I could to contribute.

Looks like you lot need more floodlight bulbs 😂😂😂😂

Edited by Albury_Walker

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20 minutes ago, 55 seasons said:

Agree with the sentiments but, at our level, being able to swiftly replace departures is perhaps more important than over stressing about retention. In this respect I feel Andy Leese has done a reasonable job in difficult circumstances. We seem to be a club with a fair measure of success with player loyalty based on those who have either stayed or returned e.g Nathan, Jon Muleba, Harold, Percy. The exception of course being the Quinton exodus of which enough has been said. 

I do feel, rather like 4WF, that we should aim to be competitive on payments within our division. notwithstanding that we can never match the likes of Billericay of a couple of seasons back. Having to reduce player payments as we did this year should be the last resort. If we were fund raising to restore normal payment levels, I for one would do what I could to contribute.

The trouble being that the fund raising would be never ending. I would guess that the current set up of membership will not really allow additional membership fund raising as there would surely be a need for those who pay more to have a bigger say or to hold more shares than those who don’t pay more? One member one vote will never allow the club to gain additional funding.

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I have said previously that the lack of player retention and lack of loyalty is not good for clubs or fans.The chance for fans and playing squad to bond is not there if turnover of playing staff is too quick and too frequent.Also the club get no benefit when talented non contracted players quickly move on to other clubs.

Unless a player is willing to sign a nominal season long contract (or for the rest of the season if they come in after the season has started) then i would not let them play for our club.Period!..Having Non-contracted players is not about saving money for the club ,it only benefits the player..What is wrong with £5 a week contract.Everything on top is negotiable.Win bonus/expenses/separately negotiated wages..etc

 

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Seems like a real double edged sword really.

 

We want young players and to nurture and turn them into the next big thing.     However for any such player to be taken away so quickly without ANY kind of deal is really tough.    Great for the player themselves to want the best for themselves but really tough. that those working so closely with him, helping, assisting, coaching and even us supporting him.

 

Unless the rules change clubs at a higher level will always be looking to cherry pick the next talent to help their clubs.

 

Only ones losing out are the lower league team!!!

 

I like alot about non league.    This is one of the few things I really DON'T like.

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Agree with much of what's been said above - LS's suggestion of getting players to sign nominal contracts so that they command a fee should they move on higher sounds good to me, but as I've said before isn't something that I think we can just do unilaterally. If we do, then those promising young players that might have joined us would go up the road to another club in the division who aren't insisting on this, as it affords them a much greater chance of moving up the leagues if they do well.

It would be great if all clubs at our step agreed to do this en-masse, so players didn't have the option of going to a club willing to take them on a non-contact basis, it would be even better if the FA / Leagues put something official in place to reimburse clubs that have nurtured talented youngsters who have then gone on to do well higher up... but I'm not holding my breath.

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3 hours ago, lovely stuff said:

I have said previously that the lack of player retention and lack of loyalty is not good for clubs or fans.The chance for fans and playing squad to bond is not there if turnover of playing staff is too quick and too frequent.Also the club get no benefit when talented non contracted players quickly move on to other clubs.

Unless a player is willing to sign a nominal season long contract (or for the rest of the season if they come in after the season has started) then i would not let them play for our club.Period!..Having Non-contracted players is not about saving money for the club ,it only benefits the player..What is wrong with £5 a week contract.Everything on top is negotiable.Win bonus/expenses/separately negotiated wages..etc

 

Minimum wage law would probably come into play

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if a player goes to a pro club and not on contract then a fee should be paid to the club for the player say £10K -  £20K  

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18 hours ago, Benjrider10 said:

It still irritates me that we were not rewarded for developing players who progressed from our club to the professional ranks. Corey Whiteley, Mohammadu Faal and Josh Davison spring to mind. At our level, most clubs can't afford to finance more than 1 or 2 players on "full" contracts, this is a simple fact and is not going to change. I think the FA should make it mandatory that the non-league club from which the player has progressed (or has spent the longest in developing that player) receive a fixed amount - say GBP 25,000 - when the player (she or he) signs a full-time contract. This fee should be paid from a ring-fenced amount allocated from the hundreds of million of pounds that the Premiership receives from TV broadcast fees every year.

Every single football supporter knows that the Premiership has failed miserably to cascade a fair and reasonable proportion of this enormous windfall down the rest of the football pyramid. This would be one way of doing it. It is similarly scandalous that the Premiership still hasn't agreed a bail-out package for struggling football league clubs. As Ian Holloway vented so memorably, it's because they are all selfish bas**rds, interested only in making profit at the expense of the game. More and more supporters have had enough of this approach - it will be interesting to see attendance numbers if/when spectators are allowed back in to the Premiership.

One of the few successful measures that the FA has put in place over the last year or two in an effort to achieve the same thing is to increase prize money for the FA Cup and FA Trophy early rounds, which has worked well. 

I read what you are saying with interest. However, the ‘I’m all right Jack’ and ‘it’s not my problem’ mentality does occur in the premiership as it also appears in the business world. Looking after number one is all the premiership is concerned about. Look at the present situation where clubs let go ‘behind the scenes’ staff but continue to pay thousands to players, even some who are not even playing!

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Interesting to read CC post, regarding Lyle and Ryan, quoting a statement given by BQ at Welling. ( see ETFC v Brightlingsea Topic)

It seems from what has been reported as being said, by BQ, he seems to infer that he regards both of them are now part of his squad.  There is no mention of an "amical arrangement" and he talks as if by acquiring them a on a dual registration it will be on going. I suggest that all those interested should read the article and I would be pleased to hear whether you interpret it the same as me.

I would also like to be reassured that as Officially stated by the club that they still remain EFTC players. Although , knowing the FA have a unique way of interpreting its laws ,  I would be surprised, if under common law, an amical agreement, has very much status having not been formally agreed. Although I have to admit to not knowing what legal status a club has when holding a player in duel registration. 

However, from what I have read it seems that we might have been had!!  What do you think?

 

 

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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Probably Andy in the world of football it's true.. But in the real word it's not .. Otherwise all thieves would be able to keep there ill gotten gains. Mind you I suppose now days most of them do even if they get caught. 

But if we can't find a way to hold on to players then all we can look forward to is stay where we are. Perhaps we should contract ourselves to a larger club as their a scouting partner.  

Oh well back to the boredom of lockdown with the hope we all stay safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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"I will keep working him and get him fitter and sharper but I think that he was the key tonight. "

 

That says it all , who else are we putting on dual registration  FFS

We need to start voting for new managment  now

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46 minutes ago, old towner said:

"I will keep working him and get him fitter and sharper but I think that he was the key tonight. "

 

That says it all , who else are we putting on dual registration  FFS

We need to start voting for new managment  now

Regardless of who the manager is, we're going to run into this issue - if we don't have players on contract, then there's nothing stopping clubs higher up (or with more money) from approaching players, then it's ultimately up to the player whether they want to stay, or move on.

There's still a chance that one or both of the players will have some loyalty to Town, and are approaching this as a temporary way to get game time and maintain fitness... but I'm not confident.

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 Lets hope this is not the tip of the iceberg and that lighting doesn't strike twice. 

What amazes me is that having seen what BQ did before I would think players would be a bit more cautious of his intentions. After all last time many of them who followed him lasted, at best, 15 months before they were on the way  out. Hardly advancement!!!!!!

I must add that I entirely concur with the sentiments expressed in your last para Barney. Unfortunately we will have to wait and see what happens after this lockdown. 

PS.  On a lighter side do you know it is quiet alright for us all to make up a party to go Rough Shooting as this does not impinge on the Covid restrictions. Anyone fancy a trip to the Northern Moorlands, what-ho old boy!!!!! 

                             

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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30 minutes ago, 4wembleyfinals said:

PS.  On a lighter side do you know it is quiet alright for us all to make up a party to go Rough Shooting as this does not impinge on the Covid restrictions. Anyone fancy a trip to the Northern Moorlands, what-ho old boy!!!!! 

                             

just getting me plus 4's and double barrel out the locker

get geevies the butler to bring the drinks  what-ho what-ho  old chap

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Yoiks!!!! Absolutely spiffing OT old sport.  You have to laugh, even old Cummings has had enough and he is now Goings. Said he'd meet us just outside Durham don't you know!!

Edited by 4wembleyfinals

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It’s all a bit like the food chain really. We get players from lower league clubs and higher league clubs get players from us. Happens all the time. All the management team need to do is work as hard as possible to get the players playing as well as they can and get the results which will then encourage supporters to watch on a regular basis.

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Very true Andy but when a club, like Welling, are trying to crowd fund players especially I would think twice before making a decisive move. Especially after the Manger's recent history I would be wary as to whether I make the mood.

I felt this about MO. It's good to move up but hardly wise to a club almost bankrupt.   

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