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pabird

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(Except not really because they all hate me for something).

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Martin there is something very different about Bliar, he has systematically removed democracy from the government dealings and to such an extent spin doctors carry more political weight than cabinet ministers

He has made telling untruths an art form to such an extent his own party are in denial

His beliefs are simple, any action,any lie ,any false promise is acceptable so long as the achievement is to keep him out front

In terms of damage to the country and its reputation abroad he is the very worst PM this country has suffered

Consider this premise, a country is judged on how it treats its sick its children,its pensioners, and you find he fails at every turn

PS not withstanding his illegal war killing thousands for his own gratification

 

 

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Why worry about Thatcher this man has had eight years and counting

If we are to consider Thatcher lets consider Callaghan and the IMF, no this man inherited the richest bank balance of any incoming PM

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Martin said:
The trouble for all politicians is that you have to get elected.

How do you get elected? By appealing to as many people as possible.

How do you appeal to people? By promosing them what they want.

How do you deliver? You can't. It is impossible because you cannot please all the people of all the time.

I am not a big fan of Tone but he is no different to any other politician they just simply cannot deliver.


Some politicians do carry out a good job and stick to their principles. Whilst I do not agree with the politics of Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn, I do respect them as MPs who do/have stuck to their principles and haven't always towed the perty line.

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Strange to say of course with Enoch having been the Minister who (first) advertised in the West Indies for people to come to the UK to "save" the NHS and the bus services when recruitment was at an all time low

Looking in the mirror we have the similar scenario being painted now by the government in their claims that we need the skills the latest 1,000,000 or so "visitors" are bringing with them

What utter crap, it will take 3 to 5 years to train the new incomers (those that wish to be trained)

The real issue being that skilled labour in this country has always been kept to a low wage high tax economy as are the rest of the population, if you allow the shortage of skilled labour to become severe then the low wage becomes high wage in the necessary recruitment process

Government and certain elements of business would much rather bring in the cheap semi-skilled labour

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The construction industry now has a severe problem with the lack ok skilled labour in most, if not all, trades. This problem will become a crisis very soon - this is widely acknowledged.

 

There are several reasons for this, including the boom-bust cycle of the industry which is used by governments as an economic regulator. After the last big slump in the 90's a lot of subcontractors and individulas had had enough and packed in in or went bust.

 

Then there is also a lack of training, the old apprenticeships went out of fashion. Plus most kids now don't fancy working hard outdoors in all weathers, it's not fashionable they all want to be graphic designers or something, all want to be "working with computers". And of course we are told that 50% of school leavers should go to university, rgardless of whether it is appropriate for the individual or if degree courses have to be dumbed down. Therefore there is no new generation of skilled labour coming through.

 

The government attempts patch-ups, like the courses for the unemployed where they are "trained" in a skill. Oh yes, we know about the so-called "plasterers, plumbers, brickies" etc that come off a 6 week government course thinking they are tradesmen! If tey are inadvertently taken on, they are inveriably laid off within days if not hours.

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I agree that some politicians do stick to their principles and Tony Benn is a fine example. In my view elections are no longer won on politics they are just a glorified popularity contest. The reason the turnout keeps slipping is because the figurehead politicians are all as detestable as each other and they all scrabble over the middle ground with no discernable political differences.

 

However, I always vote on principle. I just despair at the lack of choice and always feel I am plumping for the least worst option.

 

I agree with a lot of what IM says but I don't necessarily think that the 50% university target is a bad thing. It is the other 50% who don't do A-levels or finish after GCSEs that is cause for concern. What do they do? Previous generations used to have apprenticeships and a job for life culture. That no longer seems an option and a significant majority seem resigned to the fact that they would never stay in one job for more than 5 years. Never going to become a master craftsman like that.

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AmericanFLEETFANNo1 said:
Enoch Powell was a fine politician whose "Rivers of Blood" speech was taken out of all context by the Gutter Press


Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech contained logical errors. Since he was intelligent, this was obviously deliberate. He was therefore attempting to move British politics in the direction he favoured without caring whether it was right or wrong. Indeed, I am fairly sure that he knew what he was saying was completely baseless. I went to hear him speak because I thought there would be more substance to what he was saying, but I was totally disappointed.

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Martin said:

I agree with a lot of what IM says but I don't necessarily think that the 50% university target is a bad thing. It is the other 50% who don't do A-levels or finish after GCSEs that is cause for concern. What do they do? Previous generations used to have apprenticeships and a job for life culture. That no longer seems an option and a significant majority seem resigned to the fact that they would never stay in one job for more than 5 years. Never going to become a master craftsman like that.

allow the wages for skilled manual labour to rise to where school leavers would see a bright fiscal future and go for the training as opposed to importing the less than semi-skilled cheap rate immigrants

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The skills defecit is present now. The country cannot afford to wait to train the youth of today or wait for these jobs to become more attractive prospects. That is why skilled workers are being encouraged to enter the country because they are prepared to work bloody hard at a job they have been trained for. They are prepared to start work immediately at the current pay rate.

 

Now if we could only find a way to get rid of the useless, brainless youths who find it perfectly acceptable to spend the vast majority of their time hanging round street corners abusing passers-by rather than doing some hard work to better themselves.

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The skill shortage is not to be cured by semi-skilled people who do not speak English

You are suggesting short termism and depriving the trades of their rightful place in the perception of school leavers

Let the skill (full skills) shortage exist until the right money becomes attractive to those school leavers

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I don't agree with you that those taking the jobs are semi-skilled.

 

School leavers are not adequately skilled. Incentives to train are however necessary.

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I see them on a day to day basis not only are they semi-skilled in the vast majority but they are most certainly cheap

No! just for a change look after our own,create shortfalls in the skill trades, allow the wage levels to drift upwards and lets get some pride (and cash) back into being a tradesman

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I see them on a near daily basis at the moment. They are highly skilled, caring and good at their job. I am glad that they are there. Although I think we are talking at slightly cross-purposes because I have nurses in mind.

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Agree those I have met in the NHS as ever doing superbly

Skilled craftsman however a different story and it is an absolute that the image of the skilled craftsman in this country must be elevated to the level where "achieving" school leavers see a career that is viable and well paid

Respect is essential

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Fair enough. Certainly can agree with that.

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Why aren't there enough skilled youngsters to fill the jobs?????? Ask your Politicians who effectively killed off the very efficient Apprenticeship Schemes, and blame your Unions that allowed it, why the Scheme that they put into place of the quick 6 month courses that left kids in limbo haveing supposedly trained for a skilled job, only to be told by Employers they weren't trained at all!

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