suspected suicide bomber has been shot by armed police

[Mr Happy]

If a man is told by armed police to stop and then runs, with a ruck sack, onto the tube system and onto a train then what do you really think the police should do? It was an appalling tragedy and our thoughts and prayers should be with that man's family. However, this is the real world and mistakes do happen, even awful ones like this.

[lovely stuff]

It seemed to be a tradegy of bad luck for the poor fella.

 

1. First he emerged from a block of flats thought to house a terrorist. bad luck

 

2. The police mistake him for the suspect they are looking for bad luck

 

3. He heads into a tube station ,forcing the police to confront him bad luck

 

4. He makes the discision to run, when told to stop by the police. bad luck

 

5. He is wearing a big padded coat (which the police felt could be concealing a bomb bad luck

 

If just one of those 5 things had not conbined in the way they did,he would not have been shot. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Mr Happy]

I couldn't agree more. Life sometimes is unfair and rarely more so in this case. The idea that the guys family shold be allowed to sue the Met is outrageous. Sure, if he has dependents then they should be looked after but to say that the police were negligent in this case is crazy.

[Gazza]

Quote:

Mr Happy said:
If a man is told by armed police to stop and then runs, with a ruck sack, onto the tube system and onto a train then what do you really think the police should do? It was an appalling tragedy and our thoughts and prayers should be with that man's family. However, this is the real world and mistakes do happen, even awful ones like this.

Happy your spot on, good summary.

Think I may of stopped as instructed if I had nothing to hide!

"No smoke without fire" as they say.

[Southport - TOWNER]

well they did fire, so where was the smoke?

[Mr Happy]

You sick bu**er!

[Gazza]

Quote:

Steph said:
I think that those applauding the death of an innocent man and talking of an eye for an eye should really be considering their position now.

Not convinced he was totaly innocent & my position has not changed one bit.

I actually think that we live in a pretty sick society that when a man is shot in the head by a witness it is reported by that witness that he looked "pakistani".

Shot in the head by a witness?? & why is it sick to describe someone as looking Pakistani?? How else would you like that description made? Asian,?

I also think that Kate Hoey is an ignorant politician and the public would be better served if she was in a rest home somewhere.

Dont think it would matter who it was in her post, they would still spout the same speech.

As for the guardian of our souls, Sir Ian Blair, what happened to the doctrine it is better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man is wrongly convicted.

But is it??

A "shoot to kill" policy will lead us back into the days of the wild west and is totally immoral. The state has no right to take a life.

Lets hope your lucky enough not to be in the vacinity when the Police shoot only to maim only for the said target to then detonate his bomb!!

[Jim Cunneen]

Hang on a minute. If I was confronted by a gang carrying guns who shouted stop armed police and they were in plainclothes it might be my instinct to run for it as well! Especially bearing in mind the area of London.

 

I am not taking sides here as I can se the justifications and the problems from both sides. I am just adding one reason why you might run for it.

 

Jim

 

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/icon_smokin.gif" alt="" />

[Mr Happy]

I take your point. However, can anyone give an instance when a totally innocent man has ever been surrounded in broad daylight by a group of armed men. If someone is out to shoot someone then they would surely be far more discreet about what they are doing.

[lovely stuff]

I heard that the plain cloths coppers put on Police caps just before they confronted this man and told him to stop.

[Royal Enfield]

Quote:

Steph said:
I think that those applauding the death of an innocent man and talking of an eye for an eye should really be considering their position now.

I actually think that we live in a pretty sick society that when a man is shot in the head by a witness it is reported by that witness that he looked "pakistani".

I also think that Kate Hoey is an ignorant politician and the public would be better served if she was in a rest home somewhere.

As for the guardian of our souls, Sir Ian Blair, what happened to the doctrine it is better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man is wrongly convicted.

A "shoot to kill" policy will lead us back into the days of the wild west and is totally immoral. The state has no right to take a life.

Steff you are some kind of nut mate, The police have a first duty to save lives not let some lunatic run into a train station packed with people. If he had 10Ib of explosive on him and maimed and killed 30/40 innocent people you would no doubt be the first on here saying the police hadn't done their job properly. You need to take note of the real world mate.

[Gazza]

Quote:

Jim Cunneen said:
Hang on a minute. If I was confronted by a gang carrying guns who shouted stop armed police and they were in plainclothes it might be my instinct to run for it as well! Especially bearing in mind the area of London.

I am not taking sides here as I can se the justifications and the problems from both sides. I am just adding one reason why you might run for it.

Jim

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/icon_smokin.gif" alt="" />

Hear what your saying Jim, however I think that the average honest living Joe Public would be somewhat shocked to see several armed Police ordering them to stop, and would do exactly as instructed.

[Steph]

Judge Dred is not here yet, I hope.

 

It was not bad luck it was bad bloody policing.

 

The state arrested, then tried, convicted and executed an innocent man in broad daylight and people are saying this is bad luck.

 

We heard a lot of talk about innocent lives when the bombers bombed London but we did not hear of it when innocent lives were taken in our name in Bagdad and now another innocent life is lost in London.

 

For a person who calls himself a christian our prime minister will to have a lot to answer for at the pearly gates.

 

Now here is one for you suppose the next bomber is about 5 foot 6 inches, around 16 years of age and wears fashionable designer clothes. Will you support shoot to kill if Junior 50 is the next one to be shot by a gun crazed upholder of the law using the shoot to kill policy.

 

There is also a difficulty on this thread between nationality, which is conceived by man, and race, which is a product of nature. A pakistani is a citizen of pakistan. As far as I am aware Pakistan is a modern state with a major city in Islamabad. I am prepared to believe that like most modern states there are brown, white, black even yellow pakistanis. I have never seen a white asian.

[lovely stuff]

Steph.Lets try to keep the politics off this sight.We know you are a hard line Lefty.We know you have a vested interest because of your interaction with ethnic communities in relation to business dealings,but lets not get into the Iraq war arguements and justifications for terrorist bombings.Not the best time,mate.

[MbrunoB]

L S you might not agree with Steph's views, and I don't either, but in this country that you want protected we all have a right to our views.

[Steph]

LS

 

You point to a post where I have justified the suicide bombings. I never have and I condemn them utterly. As you are a friend I will not ask you to withdraw.

 

It is the lack of condemnation of cold blooded murder which I criticise. Our politicians and the third estate are like sheep except that they are the leaders of the flock who follow where they lead.

 

As for my business dealings. I deal with all people of whatever race in a fairminded manner. I also trust everyone unitil they deceive me. I have little or no trust in our police officers, certainly in the met, since the miners strike.

[Gazza]

Quote:

Steph said:
It was not bad luck it was bad bloody policing.

No such thing as "BAD" policing!

The state arrested, then tried, convicted and executed an innocent man in broad daylight and people are saying this is bad luck.

Never claimed any of it was bad luck, unfortunate, yes but you cant escape the fact that if the guy had done as he was told he would still be alive.


We heard a lot of talk about innocent lives when the bombers bombed London but we did not hear of it when innocent lives were taken in our name in Bagdad and now another innocent life is lost in London.

No comment, not relevent.

For a person who calls himself a christian our prime minister will to have a lot to answer for at the pearly gates.

Now here is one for you suppose the next bomber is about 5 foot 6 inches, around 16 years of age and wears fashionable designer clothes. Will you support shoot to kill if Junior 50 is the next one to be shot by a gun crazed upholder of the law using the shoot to kill policy.

Knowing Junior, she would have the common sense to do as instructed & I presume she would have nothing to hide so would not run anyway. Even so my point of view would not change just because of age, colour & creed.

There is also a difficulty on this thread between nationality, which is conceived by man, and race, which is a product of nature. A pakistani is a citizen of pakistan. As far as I am aware Pakistan is a modern state with a major city in Islamabad. I am prepared to believe that like most modern states there are brown, white, black even yellow pakistanis. I have never seen a white asian.

So if I asked you to describe your average Japanese person, you would not say he looked Japanese as there is an aray of diffrent coloured Japs. Thats Japanese to those who are offended.

[Tom S]

At the time of the shooting we were told - no doubt from anonymous police briefings - that the man was wearing "an oversized coat" and "hurdled the ticket barriers".

 

Today's Independent quotes a member of his family saying that they have been told by police that he was wearing a denim jacket and that he didn't hurdle the barriers, he used his travelcard in the normal way.

 

I've no idea which is correct, but if true the second version raises an awful lot of questions.

[MK James]

 

The police made a mistake, but their intentions were for the greater good. I'll sleep safer knowing that they are at least trying to deal with the problem- you can't fight the war on terror with right on policies and good manners alone. They say the real enemy is within- they're right it's the loony left.

[lovely stuff]

Quote:

Tom S said:
At the time of the shooting we were told - no doubt from anonymous police briefings - that the man was wearing "an oversized coat" and "hurdled the ticket barriers".

Today's Independent quotes a member of his family saying that they have been told by police that he was wearing a denim jacket and that he didn't hurdle the barriers, he used his travelcard in the normal way.

I've no idea which is correct, but if true the second version raises an awful lot of questions.

Yes Tom the Left wing INDY and The GUARDIAN have found people that claim he was not wearing a big coat or jumped the barriers.Every other eye witness statement from every news channel and newspaper says different.You choose which one to believe.

It also seems that Britains inadequete immigration system contibuted to the unfortunate chain of events.His visa was a year and a half out of date.