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suspected suicide bomber has been shot by armed police


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The Indy may be generally to the left of your politics, but that doesn't make it 'left wing'. Any paper that gives regular space to people like Bruce Anderson cannot be pigeonholed that simply.

 

They have't 'found an eye witness': the dead man's cousin says he has been told that by the police. I don't remember seeing an actual interview from a witness of the other version - just all the news sources publidshing it at the same time - which definitely struck me at the time as the result of a briefing.

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What is the role of the police?

 

It is to uphold the law which is, in this country, made with the consent of the people.

 

The police are supposed to police by consent.

 

If man make the law, police are apointed by men, what gives them the right to tell a man going about his lawful business to stop. They have no right and the man has a right to run. If caught he should be prepared to face the consequences for his actions. One of the consequences could be sueing the police for unlawful detention/arrest. One of the consequences should not be that he is shot in the head 7 times.

 

If Junior was in Stockwell and told by a plain clothes policeman pointing a gun at her that she should stop she should think twice about stopping and maybe running would be the best thing. How does she know the person pointing the gun is a copper? How does she know that he is not a mugger/drug dealer?

 

I have been stopped by the police on two occasions, once in Brixton and once off Queensway (West London not Ponders End) both were very unpleasant situations and I can understand somebody running.

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Steph,are you serious?Are you telling us that the police have no right to ask a man they believe is a terrorist and could be carry a bomb TO STOP??

 

You say that the police are 'supposed to police by consent'.Well every survey that has come out after this tragic event has indicated that the general public are right behind the polices terrorist policy.

 

Also,are you really telling me that Junior would have run when confronted by 5 armed policeman who were shouting 'stop police' ?? I don't think so.Out of every eye witness account of people both at Stockwell station or on the tube train that day ,NONE of them had any doubt that these men were policemen and ALL of then stopped when the shout of POLICE STOP rang out.The police were also constantly shouting that at the man as they chased him through the station as well.

 

It was a tragic case of mis-identifaction by the police.

 

Steph.I've been stopped by the police many times (mostly for motoring mis demeaners) and i've always found them fair and polite.If you enter into a confrontation with the police with an attitude or a chip on your shoulder,you will get trouble from them.Treat them in a courteous manner and they will treat you the same way.Thats what i've found anyway.

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LS

 

Of course the police have the right to stop and question anybody but anybody has the right to run from them and face the consequences.

 

The consequences do not include seven bullets in the head and one in the shoulder.

 

Here is a thought many people are justifying the shooting on the basis that he may have been a bomber. If he had been a bomber he could have stopped and then detonated his bomb . If he had been a terrorist after all he would have taken a few police with him. It seems the west midland police appear to have more savvy.

 

To go back to the bagdad scenario the presence of police does not stop suicide bombers taking their bombs into and outside police stations.

 

As far as stopping by the police I have always found the met police to be rude and arrogant. The only motoring offence that I have been done for is by the Essex police and I found the officer polite and sensible. There is a lack of accountability in the met which shines through with this incident.

 

Jimmy Jaz

 

There is no "War on Terror" that is a phrase dreamed up by a deluded politician seeking to justify a war for oil. If, indeed, we are at war with terror it is a war we cannot win as for each oppressive act, including shooting down unarmed Brazilians, further terrorists will feel justified in escalating the terror.

 

As far as surveys are concerned I have stated that our politicians and the third estate are sheep but the problem is that they are leaders of the flock. Think about it.

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This IS a war against terrorism.We can reduce the risk of further terrorist attacks,but the people on the Left will never allow measures to be put into place that would reduce or at least severely hinder terrorism, because of some ideolistic view about human rights and civil liberties.To me,there is no human right greater than the right not to be blown up by a terrorist.

 

Also,Terroism can NEVER be justified,and how can the mistaken killing of a brazilian national encourage more terror.These terrorists are fighting a Holy War. Their only objective is Muslim domination.As long as the West remains economically powerfull,these people will never rest.They cannot be appeased.No backing down or pandering will satisfy them.

 

9/11 happened before the invasion of Afganistan or Iraq.The Bali bombings happened before Iraq.This has been going on for 20 years.

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Steph, you are talking out of your backside. These Islamic militants have called for a Jihad or holy war on the west. If that is the case then we are fighting a war against terror. The militants are recruiting idealistic young men that society has let down (that is another issue) and turning them into religious fanatics and brainwashing them to the extent that they are prepared to die and kill as many innocent people as they can to achieve their goals. some of their clerics in the UK have called for Brittain to become an Islamic state. I agree that Bush's aims re Iraq surround oil. I am still glad that we have removed Saddam albeit for the wrong reasons. Many Iraqis have stated that they feel safer now than under that evil tyrant's regime.

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I agree with mr happy steph is talking out of his ars£ . Lefty's like steph will give our country away to these people . I travel the busses each day and I get very nervous when a woman waring a yashmak gets aboard, If I had my way they wouldn't be allowed to wear them on public transport in this climate. The police have an almost impossible job trying to cope with these fanatics and I think the police have done a great job in nailing these idiots .About 20 arrested so far this week. I have no doubt steph will say their human rights have been violated and the police are persecuting them in some way. Keep talking much more tripe steph and you may lose your friends as the majority dont think loony left like you mate.

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Quote:
Steph said:
Of course the police have the right to stop and question anybody but anybody has the right to run from them and face the consequences.

No they dont have the right, as soon as they do they are breaking the law!!

The consequences do not include seven bullets in the head and one in the shoulder.

No agree they dont, but then armed Police dont stop you for motoring or other minor offences do they.

Here is a thought many people are justifying the shooting on the basis that he may have been a bomber. If he had been a bomber he could have stopped and then detonated his bomb .

More to detonating a bomb than just pushing a button, would not of had time to set it in motion if he had stopped immediatly he was told.

If he had been a terrorist after all he would have taken a few police with him. It seems the west midland police appear to have more savvy.

All budding officers from all forces are trained & taught the same laws.

As far as stopping by the police I have always found the met police to be rude and arrogant.

With an attitude like that, they probaly are with you. Because of the unusual hours I work (Nights / Earlies) I am reguarly stopped by Police & as of yet have never had any problems at all & indeed never been prosecuted, it is all about attitude & communication.

The only motoring offence that I have been done for is by the Essex police and I found the officer polite and sensible. There is a lack of accountability in the met which shines through with this incident.


Sorry Steph but thats nonsense, do you think there is a diffrent procedure for Met officers?
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Quote:
Steph said:
....what gives them the right to tell a man going about his lawful business to stop....

You sure you dont want to word that better Steph? As he was in the country unlawfully for a start!!

If Junior was in Stockwell and told by a plain clothes policeman pointing a gun at her that she should stop she should think twice about stopping and maybe running would be the best thing. How does she know the person pointing the gun is a copper? How does she know that he is not a mugger/drug dealer?

Steph now you are being ridiculous! Muggers & drug dealers dont tend to wear Police caps quoting Police jargon in groups of five on the high street whilst pointing hand guns.

I have been stopped by the police on two occasions, once in Brixton and once off Queensway (West London not Ponders End) both were very unpleasant situations and I can understand somebody running.

You would find it unpleasent if you find it aggrevating to be stopped in the first place, again no smoke without fire huh!

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Quote:
The Blade said:
I agree with mr happy steph is talking out of his ars£ . Lefty's like steph will give our country away to these people . I travel the busses each day and I get very nervous when a woman waring a yashmak gets aboard, If I had my way they wouldn't be allowed to wear them on public transport in this climate. The police have an almost impossible job trying to cope with these fanatics and I think the police have done a great job in nailing these idiots .About 20 arrested so far this week. I have no doubt steph will say their human rights have been violated and the police are persecuting them in some way. Keep talking much more tripe steph and you may lose your friends as the majority dont think loony left like you mate.


So you think ALL muslims are suspect because of the activities of a few nutters? I suppose you also wanted all Irish Catholics expelled in the 1970s because of the activitries of the IRA.

Thankfully the vast majority of this country rejects the ramblings of the BNP and others.
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Quote:
lovely stuff said:

9/11 happened before the invasion of Afganistan or Iraq.The Bali bombings happened before Iraq.This has been going on for 20 years.


Absolutely right. We've never been outside of the firing line. Before 9/11 even happened a planned attack on the Underground by Islamic extremists was foiled. There were attacks on the Paris metro. They have declared war on the Western world, and the police, M15, even the SAS and Military should be given the powers to do whatever it takes to weed these fundamentalists out of the UK. Not only that, we have to be seen to be taking the issue seriously. The police need to show the public that they will deal with these suicide bombers, and the shoot to kill policy must stay in place. It's obviously a tragedy that an innocent man lost his life, but if we don't allow the forces the chance to pre-empt these situations then several innocent lives will be lost.

Steph, I appreciate your difference of opinion, and you have raised some valid points- that said this is a much more serious situation we are living with than people think- these extremists do not mess around. Anyone who has read about Strasbourg and the original 9/11 plans knows that this enemy is capable of far more shocking atrocities than we've witnessed so far.
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The thing is that our best hope of getting information is from the mainstream (for want of a better word) Muslim community. That's why we need to be very careful not to alienate them: that would reduce the supply of information and also drive more people towards the extremists. It's one tricky balancing act for the security services. That's why we need to take a step back and think carefully rather than introduce knee-jerk solutions.

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