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GHA EFM

Conspiracy Theory? Me?

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Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Some call me the Gangster of Love. However. More people call me a Conspiracy Theorist.<p>Now how many clubs' supporters in the Ryman League will have had support/direct contact from Supporters' Direct? <p>My guess would be 1; Enfield.<p>This would mean that when Enfield Town formed a breakaway club, the people involved in the committees, such as the 'New Ground' committee, would have had a lot of advice, help and support from Supporters' Direct.<p>Now if someone was in control of a football club, and was in a lot of debt, he/she would want the easiest and quickest way out, in theory. If they offered up their shareholding for, let's say, 99p, and offered to write off any debts they themselves are owed, then this would be a quick way out, as a new buyer would then take over the debts.<p>Let us now say that this chairman had had a great deal of first-hand contact in the forming of a breakaway club, and with the dealings of Supporters' Direct as well...<p>

It's dinner time, so I'll leave you all to finish the rest off.

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You are so demented in your conspiracy theories that it is blinding you to the facts.<p>Go to the link posted previously and you will see that Aylesbury United have set up a supporters trust. <p>If you dont want to buy the club - so be it. St Albans City gets wound up and St Albans is formed in its place. The organisation that is presenting the winding up petition is the Inland Revenue. That gives you a head start as one of the main offices for the IR is actually in St Albans. I had to go there for an appeal against tax for an organisation in West Herts.

Aldershot went through the leagues, Wealdstone are doing it why cant St Albans. Fisher went bust and reformed. <p>The alternative? <p>I can spell it out for you, Leytonstone, Walthamstow Avenue, Southall, Bedford, Hillingdon Borough, Ilford. <p>Many of these clubs went under and have not reappeared however some of the supporters rolled their sleaves up and are working hard for their new club. <p>For your information, as you have accused Enfield Town Supporters of only knowing half the story of St Albans. Enfield supporters society was set up to take over Enfield FC it was the chairman who welched on an agreed deal which left the supporters no alternative but to start a new club. Lazerou was not to be trusted and you cannot put your trust in rich millionaires or people looking to run your club as a hobby. <p>There will be problems but they aint going to be solved by sitting down doing nothing.

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Hi Stephanie.<p>Thanks for your interest once again.<p>Before the switchboard at Inland Revenue, St Albans is jammed tommorrow, you may like to know that The CVA Unit of I.R. is based in Worthing.<p>The story of Enfield/Enfield Town is an awful warning to supporters of all Non-League clubs. However, at present, we at St Albans have a nightmare of our own to resolve. There are very few similarities between the two situations, although, for sure, you have an interesting blueprint which will be considered here as the long term solution. <p>However, those at your club who were involved in the establishment of the Trust will know that there are several alternative forms that the Trust can take. Careful consideration of the alternatives will have been given, I assume.<p>One thing is for sure. The Trust is simply a vehicle. Once [the most appropriate] Trust has been formed, the problems of the current company, its history, its debts, its suspension, the rules of the F.A. and The Isthmian League, the majority shareholder, remains.<p>I could get on a high horse and say "How dare you suggest that we are doing nothing", but it doesn't get me anywhere.<p>Thanks for your support. Really. Good luck to you this season.

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So many points. Where do I start. And yes, it was a good dinner thank you.<p>

Using exaggeration for the sake of argument may not always work, but this is only because people do not realise the exaggeration is there until it is pointed out to them.<p>The exaggeration was used, albeit unnecessarily, when I said that only 1 club's supporters in the Ryman League had contacted and received help from Supporters' Direct. I was not asking how many clubs had supporters' clubs who ran fundraisers.

To the best of my knowledge, Enfield's supporters had contact with Supporters' Direct. Correct me if I am wrong.<p>At this particular moment in time I do not want to buy the club. I have hardly any money as it is, so £1 would make great indentations into my already limited supply of wealth. That, and the £*** ,THOUSAND worth of debt. That wouldn't help either. I'm not too sure that normal (to an extent), everyday supporters of a non-league football team would want to take on a debt of £*** ,THOUSAND either. Even if they did, as of this moment, I would guess that the club would still be wound up in three weeks. A lack of professional advice, plus a lack of funds, organisation, time etc. Why not leave it to the semi-professionals (see what I've done there?). Although to be fair, it did work for Enfield Town. They are only X leagues below where they started. Surely there must be another way? The grapevine tells me there is. Once again. Correct me if I am wrong.<p>Steph. Please tell me whereabouts in my message I accused Enfield supporters of knowing only half the story. If you lot only know half the story, could you let us in on it, because we know much less than that. Lee Harding can be elusive, when he wants to be. Is he still in the Carribean? What happened there? Anyone?<p>It's homework time now, but I'll be back soon. Quality not quantity as they say.<p>I look forward to hearing from you soon.<p>Yours,

The Grand High Aviator of Cool

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Grand High Aviator

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GrandHighAviator

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GHA

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Space Cowboy

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Gangster of Love

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Big Papa Smurf

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Just out of interest. Does anyone know if there was anything happening at Clarence Park tonight? The lights were on and movement in the trees. I know City normally train on a Thursday (maybe twice a week now as no games!) and seen as today is Tuesday (yes really), there may have been another explanation. <p>Can anyone enlighten us,just incase it was something big!!<p> <img src="graemlins/muede.gif" border="0" alt="[muede]" />

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G.H.A. and A.F.F.<p>As an interested outsider who genuinely cares about the future of your club I am interested to know your views on the way forward for St. Albans, both in the short term and the long run. You both seem like intelligent individuals and I appreciate the comments on the different uses of a Trust but I am curious as to your views of the St. Albans future.<p>P.S. This message contains no conspiracy theories, doesn't claim to know anything more than little about your situation or stem from any alias of Lee Harding! Cheers!

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Like GHA, I can afford the 1 pound to buy City, but not much more. I too belong to the impoverished section of City supporters, like GHA (for the record, I had a delicious rat souffle for tea tonight - recipe available upon request). I can, however, offer the following: time, excellent telephone manner, persistance bordering on lunacy and, at the moment, a particularly svelte beard. You all know how to contact me.<p>Interesting points raised above. Particularly about the teams judged as being successful and unsuccessful. A brief resume... Leytonstone, Ilford and Walthamstow are now half of Dagenham & Redbridge. Screwed by a series of property developers, if my memory serves me right. Southall don't play in the Ryman League any more, but never went bust. Wealdstone are still homeless, eleven years after selling Lower Mead (something to do with property developers and/or the chairman, I'd wager). Bedford Town reformed in 1989, and took 12 years to get back to the Ryman League. Hillingdon reformed in 1990 and still play in the South Midlands League. Even Aldershot, who reformed in 1992 with huge crowds (and gate receipts) and the cache of being able to allow the best lower division Ryman League players the chance to play in front of 1500+ crowds in Nationwide League facilities, have stalled in the Ryman Premier when their expectations are sooo much higher (and don't we all love that...). I can list more and more - AP Leamington, Colne Dynamoes and South Liverpool are three that spring readily to mind.<p>None of these clubs have reached the ideal positions that they may have hoped for themselves apart from Bedford Town, and it took them 12 years. Using Wealdstone, unable to get promotion whilst playing at Edgware, as a success story doesn't sound like much of an advertisement for anything to me, and they didn't even go bust. <p>I don't want any of these situations. I don't want to be homeless, playing in a league that I just want to be out of as soon as possible, with the possibility of failed ambition lurking around every corner. Much as I admire the stand that ETFC fans have made, and the obvious long-term commitment that it requires, all I want back is City - playing in the Ryman League. Or am I asking too much?

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"Tony Lazerou" said<p>"Why is it that Enfield Town supporters are so interested in the situation at City. Why don't they keep their noses out of it?"

Enfield Town supporters love football and do not want to see another senior club ruined as you did with Enfield. <p>Go on tell them that you sold the stadium just so that they know. Then you didn't appeal against the planning refusal at Cheshunt and you didn't even apply for planning permission at Brimsdown. And you took the ESCROW money from the council. <p>They need to have the full facts about you. <p>Oh and yes you reneged on the heads of terms agreement for the supporters to take over the club. Now why dont you take your nose out of football as you just ruin it.

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Hi Stephanie.<p>For a gel, you have plenty of spunk. I'm beginning to like you even more.<p>Now. Permit me to assist you as you have shown so much interest in our little local difficulty. This Tony Lazerouou registered on here last week. He has posted 3 times in total. Remarkably, he makes no effort to disguise his identity. Even more remarkably, he is one of only 3 people who come on here who know what a reflexive pronoun is.<p>So. Steph. You wont be familiar with this concept on the Brimsdown Rovers board. IT ISN'T THE REAL TONE. We get this all the time. Lord Carman. Dennis Roach. Terry Venables. Gian Luca Vialli. Sven Goran Ericsson. Tony Blair. The list goes on. The only one that was real was T.V.

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Steph<p>I'm sure you are a genuine Enfield Town FC fan!<p>I see you and your fellow fans really hate Lazarou for what he did to your Club!<p>Therefore are you in favour of Lee Harding being on your New Ground Committee?<p>He has done the same to St.Albans City as Lazarou did to Enfield!!

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Did you not note the "" around Tony Lazerou in my post or did you choose to ignore them. <p>And AFF you presume too much as many ETFC fans will tell you. <p>Lee has been a supporter of Enfield FC and now Enfield Town for many years. He wanted to take over EFC but was prevented by Laz so he turned to St ALbans. <p>I have seen him at the St Albans ground and, as far as I know, he did his best for the club but received no help from the fans. Now the fans are turning on him but as I said I went to St Albans when they played Enfield and neither club has many fans now. <p>A poster on this board said well Enfield aren't the draw they used to be. With respect St Albans were never much of a draw in any case, except when they won the league, yet Enfield fans always used to draw out and watch em just as we turned out for Croydon, Basingstoke or Purfleet. It doesn't matter who your team is playing you turn out as the average gate at Enfield Town - nearly 300 - shows. <p>And I know 300 isn't much but it isn't bad for a "below average league" without any away fans attending at Brimsdown.

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So much said, so much disillusioned and so little time to answer, I will hand over to either AFF, Trevor England or GHA, as they will most likely put it twice as well as I will.

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Well... you offer support to someone and wish them good luck... and what do they do? They turn around and start waxing on as if they know your club and it's history better than you do. While it's true that City never had a purple patch in the Conference, as EFC did in the 80s, to say that we're not "a draw" in the league only seems to show to me someone who has only been watching non-league football for a very short while indeed. Our crowds have certainly plummeted over the last couple of years, but they'll be back. A healthy average league position over the last decade, average crowds of around 6-700 over a ten year period and one of the largest travelling supports in the league would seem to indicate that Steph is basing her views on the crowds for last season alone. <p>In all honesty, Enfield were never even a draw to their own fans during their heyday. As far as I can remember, their average gate in the Conference winning season of 1986 was in the region of 850. I wonder how long they'd have survived in the League on gates that big. <p>Frankly, I couldn't give two tosses about the opinions of any Enfield or Enfield Town fans. If they choose not to see the stupidity of co-opting a man who has played a part in ruining one club and ruined another all of his own accord, then that's their business. When I do get annoyed is when they come onto our message board preaching about how whiter-than-white they are and how we'd be better off by doing what they're doing. I don't want the advice of a club playing a county league (not even their own county - either that or the Middlesex lion on their badge is some kind of ironic statement) on somebody else's pitch. That may well be the way they want to go. Good luck to them. Quite honestly, I don't see exactly where ETFC are going to get their own ground in the borough of Enfield from - land's at a premium in that part of the world, and I wouldn't have thought that non-league football is at the top of most councillor's agendas at the moment. <p>Steph, don't waste our time with your oxymoronic arguments and comments. Your previous post about defunct and reformed clubs was complete gibberish - proving to me what even I had not thought much about much before. The list of clubs you gave us was proof, if nothing else was needed, that if you walk out and start afresh at the bottom, you're more likely to stay there than you are to get back to where you think you belong. I don't want that, unless there's no other option. Even then, we'll have Clarence Park to fall back on. We'll be secure in the knowledge that even if we are reduced to playing glorified park football, we'll have our own facilities all ready and in place should we get promoted back. Remember though, it's more crowded at the bottom than it is at the top. Don't insult us and our club on our own message board by claiming we're smaller than you'd know we are if you actually bothered to think anything you say through. Rubbing salt into a wound is one thing. Bringing your own pathetic arguments onto our message board and giving it the large one from the safety of the Essex Senior League. We're not interested in the politics of your club(s) and we never will be.<p>There are perfectly serviceable message boards for ETFC and EFC on these forums. Kindly use them and leave us alone.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> I have seen him at the St.Albans ground and, as far as I know, he did his best for the fans. Now the fans are turning on him... <hr></blockquote><p>As far as you know Stephanie? Exactly. You know jack s..t about the situation. If that is his best, increasing the club's debt by something like £200k over his 4 years in charge and upsetting just about every decent hardworking volunteer and supporter at the club in the process. I think that says plenty just for starters. Tony Lazarou is right. Keep you nose out of it. <p>Perhaps you might like to attend our Supporters Meeting on 7th February and learn the true facts before coming back and making some sensible comments on our board.

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>>Trevor England<p>I really dont know why I bother but,<p>The badge on the town shirt is an Enfield apparently it is a mythical greek or roman monster. You can see a metal representation outside the Enfield Civic Centre.<p>The arms for Middlesex are three scimitars as any follower of cricket would know.<p>And btw - this message board is on the internet and as such the whole world has access to it and to your rantings. If you want a private board you will have to organise one amongst your clique - trouble is it will be very small and you will get no support from outsiders.<p>As for the rest of your post. <p>Just how long have you been an ostrich.<p>>>True Saint<p>That is an apt nick - you are indeed a true saint and the club and you deserve each other.

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To answer your points one by one, Steph:<p>1. We've received message of support from the following clubs - Gravesend, Chesham, Canvey, Billericay, Enfield, Enfield Town, Forest Green Rovers & Hitchin Town, amongst others, for which we are very grateful. <p>2. Thank you very much for the history lesson on your club's badge. Enfield Civic Centre is a place I'll be adding my list of "places I must visit" - right after Berlin, Tokyo, Venice, New Orleans & Goa. I must be wholly incorrect in thinking that Enfield is in Middlesex, rather than Essex. Really, this is absolutely, completely and utterly the very very very last thing on my mind right now.<p>3. Believe it or not, us country folk are aware that the internet is a world wide web. It's not all donkeys, hand-carts and inbreeding round here, you know. Presumably, you won't mind if we all cover your club's messageboard slagging off your club, spouting incoherent rants masquerading as what may, in an asylum, pass for reasoned argument.<p>4. Interesting to see how you gloss over the sections of my argument to which you have no answer. From a rough calculation, the reformed/reconstituted clubs in your list are now all two divisions lower than they might have expected or reasonably hoped to be (this, if you read back, was the crux of my original argument). It applies to all of them, with the exception of Bedford, who took 12 years to get to what they might think of as their "true level" - and they're struggling to stay in it. If we take that as the biggest success you mentioned... I'll be pushing 40 by then. Like I said before - it's more crowded at the bottom than at the top, and while we have a 1000/1 chance of staying where we are, we'll fight for it. <p>5. That's about as much as I can be bothered to manage. For further information on what's happening to this club, keep an eye on the web site. As GHA mentioned before, we all know considerably less than half the story behind what's going on with our club at the moment. I can't be doing with arguing with Enfield Town supporters any more. Feel free to carry on posting, but I'll be exercising my right to ignore you.

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As an Enfield Town fan, I wish you all the best. I wish we hadn't had to drop several divisions but we decided it was in our better interest to do so than to stay where we were. We decided that because of the circumstances surrounding our club. That isn't to say it always the best thing to do and, without knowing all the ins and outs of what has happened at St Albans I don't think supporters of my club should be saying that you must got down the same road. However, if it does all go horribly wrong and you do find yourselves trying to start afresh then it would make sense to talk to those clubs which have done the same (such as Enfield Town and Aldershot Town). There are also clubs which have been taken over by the supporters and managed to stay in the same league and division they were in to start with. Bournemouth and Chesterfield spring to mind. They may be able to give you some help in doing just that.<p>A note for Steph: The IR office in St Albans is a local office and no more a main one than the one in Winchmore Hill. The CVA stuff would have come from the Enforcement Office in Worthing.<p>A note for AFF: Steph is a bloke. Do you still like him?

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