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Big J R

Iranian Piracy

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The Iranians grab fifteen of our Navy Personnel and we sit back for three days and do nothing.

 

One is a female AB, married to a Petty Officer and has a young child.

 

I'm sure we all know what the Islamic fundalmentalists think of woman in general, and how they treat them. Look at their punishment to a woman caught commiting adultery. Stoned to death !

 

It is JUST possible that our forces HAD strayed just outside Iraqi waters, but that doesn't excuse the fact the the Iranians have denied them any access to British diplomats !!!

 

Isn't it time we kicked all their embassy staff out of Great Britain ??

 

DISCUSS.........................................

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What's wrong with stoning adulterous women?

 

Seriously though, how do you play it? We don't know where they are being held and they will probably have been split into smaller groups by now. recovering them by force is out of the question, e.g. a rescue attempt, nuking Tehran etc.

 

They wouldn't dare actually hurt the "hostages" as they know the consequences would be dire. Also I doubt if they would give a monkey's about us throwing out their diplomats.

 

It will ultimately be resolved diplomatically, but in the meantime we will just have to put up with having our noses tweaked by the mad mullahs.

 

On a lighter note, the stoning scene from Life of Brian!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dRRYXtk1CA

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Originally Posted By: Big J R

It is JUST possible that our forces HAD strayed just outside Iraqi waters, but that doesn't excuse the fact the the Iranians have denied them any access to British diplomats !!!



Last report I saw said satellite evidence proved the British personnel were inside Iraqi waters and the Iranians had crossed the line. Also, the vessel they were investigating was still in the same area as it was when the incident happened... which was inside Iraqi waters.

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Originally Posted By: Hookey
What's wrong with stoning adulterous women?

Seriously though, how do you play it? We don't know where they are being held and they will probably have been split into smaller groups by now. recovering them by force is out of the question, e.g. a rescue attempt, nuking Tehran etc.

They wouldn't dare actually hurt the "hostages" as they know the consequences would be dire. Also I doubt if they would give a monkey's about us throwing out their diplomats.

It will ultimately be resolved diplomatically, but in the meantime we will just have to put up with having our noses tweaked by the mad mullahs.

On a lighter note, the stoning scene from Life of Brian!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dRRYXtk1CA


Depends what you mean by 'HURT !!

The last ones they captured were humiliated, forced to endure a mock execution and publically admit they were in the wrong.

It's times like this I actually wish Maggie was still in charge !!

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Why, what would she have done?

 

We are not talking about a rag bag bunch of conscripted Argies here, we're talking about a highly trained, highly armed, highly fanatical AND highly numbered army who are playing at home!!!!!

 

We saw what can happen when the Yanks tried to rescue American hostages from Iran during the Carter regime. They crashed and burned in the desert!!!

 

These bastards didn't sign the Geneva convention so we should not expect them to adhere to it. Our Marines will have been trained in the art of interrogation and whilst it will be grim for them and their families, anything short of death or long term incarceration is par for the course in modern warfare.

 

So I ask you Big JR, imagine you are the Prime Minister, what would YOU do?.......... Good debate though!!

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I certainly would have mobilised in the middle East.

 

It's called sabre rattling.

 

Just because you mobilise, doesn't mean you actually have to fire the first shot.

 

I take your point on their massive army, but I'm pretty sure our weaponary and fire-power is FAR superior to theirs.

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Yes, apparently they were within Iraqi waters and we can prove it. According to a nautical legal eagle (seagull?) on Radio 4 earlier today, however, that makes no difference in international maritime law - if they HAD been in Iranian waters they are still not entitled to detailn them, board them or sink them. They can only ask them to leave.

 

But I want to know the exact circumstances of their "capture". How far way from Cornwall were they? Having inflatables I assume it was not far. Why did the frigate not steam down to the incident as soon as the Iranian patrol boats appeared on the scene? Cornwall has a 4.5" gun (among other things) and could easily have persuade them to leave. Similarly she has a Lynx helicopter or two. What's the point of sending the Navy if they're not allowed to do what they do best? We might as well send the Isle of Wight ferry.

 

Clearly it's a bit trickier after the capture - while the patrol boats could easily have been sunk it's not a good idea with our boys and girls aboard (assuming we didn't know which boat they were on).

 

But all this hand wringing and talk on "entering another phase" must be cracking the Iranians up. They don't give a toss about diplomacy or international opinion.

 

As Hookey says it's all a bit late now. Severe economic sanctions are about the best we can do, and of course make life very difficult for any Irnanian shipping.

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Now those kidnapping pirates have the bl00dy nerve to parade our forces, obviously forcing the only female to make a scripted response to the capture.

 

To cap it all, they force her to wear an islamic, (note no capital 'I'), head-dress.

 

Luckily, we have hardly any of that religion living near me, but I will now take it upon myself to demand any woman wearing a head-dress in my presence, to remove it as being un-British and religiously offensive to me !

 

I don't care if the moderators DO edit/delete this post. I am furious.

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Originally Posted By: Big J R
.....Luckily, we have hardly any of that religion living near me, but I will now take it upon myself to demand any woman wearing a head-dress in my presence, to remove it as being un-British and religiously offensive to me !



Aah, but how would you know she was a woman and not some bomber or police murderer on the run? .....

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Good point Andrew.

 

I'm already in trouble on another web-site for making my views public !

 

Until this matter is resolved, I shall keep quiet !

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Of course we gets loads of propaganda shoved down our throats daily about this - as I am sure do the Iranian people.

 

Video evidence can be altered on both sides.

 

This will either end peacefully in the next couple of days - or Bush and Blair will use it as a nice excuse to invade Iran...

 

In the meantime petrol will hit the £1 a litre mark very soon as a direct result of this - or at least that is what will be blamed.... First big increases will come on Maundy Thursday. just in time for Easter...

 

Mind you that means more VAT for the chancellor - so he is happy....

 

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Originally Posted By: Big J R
I certainly would have mobilised in the middle East.
It's called sabre rattling.
Just because you mobilise, doesn't mean you actually have to fire the first shot.


But for what purpose? Any mobilisation's cost would far outweigh any gains, not to mention that the British armed forces are already massively overstretched in Iraq, Afghanistan and other deployments. Any further commitment of forces risks overstretching the services further and undermining an already poorly supplied bunch of men and women in existing theatres. To merely 'sabre rattle', that's a hugely expensive and risky operation.


Quote:
I take your point on their massive army, but I'm pretty sure our weaponary and fire-power is FAR superior to theirs.


But as Iraq has shown, that might win you a battle or two, it certainly doesn't win you a war and risks tying yourselves down for years. Iran has the eighth largest army in the world against the UK's 20th and as someone else pointed out, they're on home soil without any other commitments. However well-trained our army is, you risk the deaths of thousands if you support military action in this case.

Originally Posted By: Big J R
To cap it all, they force her to wear an islamic, (note no capital 'I'), head-dress.


That's less a political point and more bad grammar, JR.... wink grin

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On the bright side at least it wasn't US Marines that were captured becasue we would probably already be supporting George Bush jnr's war on pirates and all those that harbour pirates.

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Originally Posted By: Ian_W
Of course we gets loads of propaganda shoved down our throats daily about this - as I am sure do the Iranian people.

Video evidence can be altered on both sides.

This will either end peacefully in the next couple of days - or Bush and Blair will use it as a nice excuse to invade Iran...

In the meantime petrol will hit the £1 a litre mark very soon as a direct result of this - or at least that is what will be blamed.... First big increases will come on Maundy Thursday. just in time for Easter...

Mind you that means more VAT for the chancellor - so he is happy....


I wish I had your confidence, Ian !

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In no way am I supporting the Iranians over who's waters the Marines were in. These waters have been disputed between Iraq and Iran for years. It does make me wonder though, a:Why were the Marines in such a volatile area? b: Where was their support?

Sometimes keeping a low profile makes sense. It seems to me that 'Sabre Rattling' could be the cause of this dispute.

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Sabre rattling is only an option if you are fully prepared to follow it through. The slightest hint that you are bluffing is fatal - you will just look very very silly.

 

Our firepower and arms? What firepower and arms? Decades of political penny pinching and defence cutbacks by governments of all shades have left us with insufficient kit, and the kit we do have doesn't work. We rely so heavily on stuff from the yanks that they call the British forces "the Borrowers".

 

I don't see an easy way out of this but would still seriously question the preparedness of the ship for this operation. If the boarding party in the two inflatables could not be supported by Cornwall and/or the Lynxes, they should not have been sent in. Maybe the inflatables could have refused to accompany the patrol boats but set off towards Cornwall, with a Lynx escorting above, fully prepared to fire on the patrol boats if any ineterefnce was suspected, until they reached deeper water where Cornwall could assist.

 

If we are not prepared to open fire in support of the operatrion or of our people we should not be there.

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Now we have them back safe and sound, what next!!!!

 

Do we let it go and just learn from our mistakes?

 

Or do we seek reprisals?

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I think, 'Watch This Space' seem the appropriate words, Hookey.

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Did you see the suits the mop-tops gave our lads to wear on their release ?

 

Looks like they can't even afford a Primart in Tehran !

 

No wonder they go round wearing sheets and the women cover their faces.

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Originally Posted By: Big J R
Did you see the suits the mop-tops gave our lads to wear on their release ?



More fashionable than those orange jumpsuits though...

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Originally Posted By: American FLEET FAN No1
Exactly..........I think somebody should be questioning the decision that put them in that situation, also where was their backup?
Thats a good point they should never have been there , Glad they have been returned safe . The Iranians took the opportunity to publicly humiliate them ,This is what its come too ,bring the troops home and let them Arabs get on with it.

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