Future of Refereeing

[Krooner]

I thought spy made some excellent observations about the future of officiating in another thread.

 

I am genuinely concerned that within 10 years the CCL Premier division will have Club Assistants because there will not be enough officials. I think there are a lot of reasons for this.

 

1 - There are a lot of refs who will not be doing it in 10 years because they will not be able too. I cannot see where these guys are going to be repaced. A lot of the older guys have been officiating at a higher level and have moved down but I do not see that happening as much these days.

 

2 - For me a lot of younger referees are being sold a lie. Too many really believe they are going to make it to the top. There are only a select number of places available so of course not all of them will. The problem arises when they get "stuck" at level 4 for 2 or 3 years. I know a few young refs who have said to me if they dont get Level 3 within 2 or 3 years they will pack up. Everyone has their level in any chosen walk of life and it is time that was made clear. A Level 4 ref is as important as a Prem Ref

 

3 - Respect. Not nearly enough of it from players at all levels. I am told I have to earn respect but I completely disagree with that. The players should respect me and it is then mine to lose. I respect all people in life until they do something serious enough to lose that respect. Also if I make a poor decision in a game, of which there are plenty of examples, it shouldn't mean that I get no repsect from those players it affects adversely. It is the decision I make not me they should have the issue with.

 

4 - Dissent. I am told that refs should do more about it but when we do we are called "Busy". If I followed the letter of the law and had to abandon the game cos 1 team only had 6 players left and the other 7 whose fault would it be ? Mine. For me introduce the 10 yard rule. I give a decision which is disagreed with. If the players continue to moan I pick the ball up and walk with it until they stop. If it means I carry the ball into the area and it becomes a penalty then so be it. No need for a yellow card because that is punishment enough. I really think that 2 years of that rule in would change how people deal with incorrect decisions.

 

5 - Refs and AR themselves. I personally think that every level should have a fitness test of some sorts. At the moment we really do not have enough officials but I do genuinely believe that the CCL Prem AR's should have to pass a fitness test. For me that would show players and clubs that these guys do put efforts in to be fit enough for that level.

 

6 - Finally clubs - Clubs do not do enough to prevent over the top abuse of officials and opposition players. I have been subject to some really utterly awful abuse and have reported the abuse to the necessary people but nothing was done. Once I was subject to unbelieveable abuse that actually did genuinely upset me and make me consider packing up. When I went into the board room the person saying those things was actually in the Board Room. I have also seen officials abused verbally in board rooms.

 

I am sure there will be plenty of funnies made but I would be really interested in other peoples views but for now I will ask one question.

 

Why do players not take up the whistle at the end of their playing careers ?

[Smudge]

Krooner a very well put balanced article,the problem lies not with the Officials,but the Hierachy that runs the F.A. and the Leagues,they should get off their backsides and go and watch a few games,then they would get a better idea of what Officials had to put up with.The players of today mirror the society we live in,where respect is at an all time low,not just for Officials but everyone.The overiding factor though is Money,Fines from Players has become a CASH COW for County F.A.s,Surrey alone took £458,000 in 08 in Fines alone,so if Players suddenly get respect for Referees,where are they going to generate that revenue.

[Mewcenary]

Well said, Krooninator.

 

The thing is, I thought currently the Prem had TOO MANY level 4s hence they are cutting them down by 50% at end of season? As that will be based on marks, will that not help raise the level of quality?

 

As one example, I was out with a level 4 who is aiming for level 3. His complaint was that due to the referee numbers, he only gets one CCFL Premier middle a month. Is that really enough exposure for him?

Edited March 19, 2010 by Mewcenary

[Big J R]

No funnies from me at all, Kroons. You know me personally better than that.

 

On the whole, I TOTALLY agree with your sentiments.

 

Using club 3rd. Officials, I'll never be happy with that at our level of football. I already hear a lot of nasty comments from away supporters at Meadowbank, often visiting club officials, regarding the suitability and experience of the assistants.

 

Can you imagine what it would be like if the home club assistant gave a close decision against the away team ? Swearing, general abuse and probably, a complaint from the away team to the League/FA about bias.

 

Believe you me, it's already happing in youth football. Eldest daughters partner now flatly refuses to officiate at ANY youth games, after being called a 'cheating-c n u t' and a fat-f*cker'. I had to stop him from decking the prat. He just walked straight onto the pitch, handed the referee his flag, made his complaint and stalked off.

 

On your point 6. I have, in my capacity warned several visiting supporters about language and abuse. Generally, my advice is usually well received.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Big J R

[Smudge]

Never heard any abuse about my running the line the other night,even though I made one clanger,that the Ref rightly overuled.There could be 2 reasons for that,1:-I'm Deaf as a post,2.The game was played at the ARENA, was pleased at end of game though when all the oppossing side shook me by the ?,a nice gesture I thought.I dont do handshakes,unhygenic,as my Mum told me,you dont know where there hands have been.Down their shorts for instance arggh.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Smudge

[Terrence Collina]

Krooner

 

All good points and I fully agree with point 3.

 

Dissent, I think there are too many referee's who do not punish fouls accorindly, but are happy to caution for dissent. Thats not saying that dissent should not be punnished but when the FA looks at the paperwork after the games from a referee and continually see many cautions for dissent and hardly any for fouls, then the referee should be watched so that it can be seen if it is genuine dissent, or caused by the failure to properly manage fouls. If the latter then they can then be guided accordingly to manage situations better.

 

I am surprised there is not a fitness test for the CCL. The old Chiltonian league used to have a fitness test.

[Smudge]

If they organised a Fitness Test for Officials in C.C.L. 1,No bragging I would be in top 5,Fitness is definitely not their Forte,but they are a nice bunch of Fellows.

[Big J R]

Steady on about fitness tests.

 

You'll get Smudgie started again !

 

[johnnojudo]

Wasn't the 10 yard rule brought in a few years back?? Great rule in my opinion. Except the bit about it being a penalty when marched back 10 yds into the box. Should just be an indirect free kick in the box.

 

Just on a personal note.... i love the sin bin rule in Rugby and i think it could be introduced in football too. Save the gobby player a booking and send him in the sin bin for 10mins. As a captain i'd be pretty p1ssed off if every now and then we had to play with 10 men. The arguements and abuse of the referee would surely stop or at least calmed down. You dont need any extra officials or complicated timers to do this. You have 3 officials who can keep track of it.

 

No one really liked the pass back rule when it 1st came out. We're all now used to it and what a great rule. Its all about trial and error.

[Red Spot]

Wasn't the 10 yard rule brought in a few years back?? Great rule in my opinion. Except the bit about it being a penalty when marched back 10 yds into the box. Should just be an indirect free kick in the box.

 

Just on a personal note.... i love the sin bin rule in Rugby and i think it could be introduced in football too. Save the gobby player a booking and send him in the sin bin for 10mins. As a captain i'd be pretty p1ssed off if every now and then we had to play with 10 men. The arguements and abuse of the referee would surely stop or at least calmed down. You dont need any extra officials or complicated timers to do this. You have 3 officials who can keep track of it.

 

No one really liked the pass back rule when it 1st came out. We're all now used to it and what a great rule. Its all about trial and error.

 

 

I would agree with you on the sin bin thought. The only problem then is what to do with the managers who step over the line. That said, one other consideration is - if the players were sent to the sin bin for dissent - do you think it would stop them shouting dissent from there?

[bomaya]

I will comment about abuse. I have on a few occasions lost my temper at a match and shouted some horrendous abuse at refs. I have always regretted it completely afterwards. Not sure what I can do about it but football can be such an emotional sport that's it hard to think rationally when in the moment. The same way the red mist can descend on a player and they will scythe someone down or boot the ball away at a free kick...you just cannot control yourself and sometime yelling in frustration a the ref is the same release of built-up feelings. It's not right, I know. In fact it's downright embarassing when you think back on it.

[Big J R]

Sin Bins + Managers/Dug-out staff = Send them to the stands/changing rooms.

 

Sir Alex has been 'relegated' a few times !

[tonydk]

For those of you who don't know me, i am the assistant referees and fixture manager for the suburban football league and hope you may like to heard the view from my angle.

 

All assistant referees who join the SFL will have a number of games on the North and South at the beginning, and i go and look at ALL my new assistant referees some time within their first few games. That way i can then put a face to a name as well as seeing if i feel that they can be placed onto a Premier Division game during the season. I also look at the marks of ALL the A/refs, and if any are 50 or below request a report from the referee's, as well as me going to watch their next match. On the Prmeier Division the assistant referees are the ones that i know can keep up with the pace of the game, as well as been capable of been on the line. During the season, if i feel they are good enough, i put the newer a/refs onto a premier game, and then contact the assessor manager and arrange for an assessor to go to the game. This helps them wih their further development. For your information one of the assistant referees on are League Cup final this season is only 17.

 

I notice that on another thread, that someone wished that a league official went to a game, i attend a game at lest one, sometimes twice, a week and as either a referee/assistant referee or league official have been to all the new clubs in the league every season. These are clubs that come into the league in either the North or South division and we as a league feel they are as important as the premier divisionclubs. I will also add that i know the chairman of the league is ofton at a game in the north division,area as that is where he lives.

 

I do agree with one of the other comments is that a number of referees do caution for dissent, but miss the caution for a bad tackle...

 

Regarding the 10 yard attempt...i was luck enough to go to Jersey to referee a number of games during the season that they used that league as a trail and found it did help, but the biggest problem was that you HAD to issuse a caution. Alos if it went into the penalty area it was only an indirect free kick.

 

regarding a fitness teat for assistant referees.....not a bad idea, but i feel that we could lose a number of referees, who would pass the test, because they just can't be bothered to go to one.

 

The sin bin...works in rugby...but a lot of things work better in rugby than football...look at the lack of dissent the referee get in a game

 

regarding the number of level 4's......the main reason they seem to have too many is that over the last few years they have been promoting too many too quickly.You can go fom level 7 down to a level 5 in a season, and then to a level 4 during the following season. What has he learned during that time.....We had one referee last season that i watched in his first game in the premier division, and mentioned afterwards that he was slow to pick up his two assistant referees during the game, and he advised me that he had never done a game with natural assistant referee!!!! When i was in the system for moving up the leagues, you had to finish in the top 2/3 referee in the league, and then go for an interview to move into the Rymans/Southern league as a referee.. There would be at least 20 referees there and only 2/3 were accepted that season. I went to 2 inertviews, but both after i had turned 40 and they were then looking at younger referees

, and i didn;t move up to the Ryman middles, but the two who did both went onto be Football League referees, so maybe they should go back to that system again.

 

hope you didn't mind me giving these views.

 

 

.

[Smudge]

Tony a very useful contribution from the other side,can I ask how many helpers you have to assist you.Remembering there are 30 matches every Saturday in C.C.L. How can every Official be covered.Is it different in the Suburban League,my fear has always been that Clubs do not mark down Officials,due to the paper work involved,thus not giving reliable feedback to the League,is that the case.

[bomaya]

 

 

hope you didn't mind me giving these views.

 

Not at all Tony, always good to hear from you. You're a decent ref and a very good organiser for that league.

[bomaya]

my fear has always been that Clubs do not mark down Officials,due to the paper work involved,thus not giving reliable feedback to the League,is that the case.

 

From my experience, yes, a lot of people don't bother. When I was a secretary though I was always prepared to do it if requested by the management but only did it once when I was at a game myself.

[tonydk]

Tony a very useful contribution from the other side,can I ask how many helpers you have to assist you.Remembering there are 30 matches every Saturday in C.C.L. How can every Official be covered.Is it different in the Suburban League,my fear has always been that Clubs do not mark down Officials,due to the paper work involved,thus not giving reliable feedback to the League,is that the case.

 

I have a panel of 145 assistant referees this season, some give me only one saturday per month, some give many more, mid week i am never short as have plenty to choose from. . We don;t have as many games as the CCL so i don't have to find as many as Phil Nash has too each saturday, sometimes i have hardly any...like tomorrow the 20th...and then next week have lots that i can't give appointments to...next saturday!!!

 

The clubs mark the referees on each game, the referees mark the assistant referees. The main problem with the clubs is that you are correct, they don't like to sit down and write a letter regarding the referees performance, so they just mark just above the level mentioned in the league handbook. Thats why the FA have now deceided that all level 4 in the supply leagues have at least 50% of games assessed, and they are now now going more on these marks than the club marks.

I am sure they will go to a 100% coverage of level 4's soon, but then they will have to find more assessors, who then have to go through the FA assessor course. These will be the only ones that can assess an level 4's, whereas other levels can be seen by County FA trained assessors.

 

The same applies for the referees regarding the assistant referee, and thats why i go to look at any assistant referee that receives a mark below 70 from a referee. I also am luckly that i know a number of the referee on our list, and they will mention the good and bad ones to me, either by phone or e-mail...

 

I do have a few that may well be on there last season...due to age/fitness levels....its not an easy job telling someone that they are not upto it......but i will advise that these assistant referees have not done any premier division games this season, only north or south and normally get games when i am short. I know that they may not be the best, but sometimes an official assistant referee is better than having a club person doing the line...always causes problems for the referee.

[tonydk]

my fear has always been that Clubs do not mark down Officials,due to the paper work involved,thus not giving reliable feedback to the League,is that the case.

 

From my experience, yes, a lot of people don't bother. When I was a secretary though I was always prepared to do it if requested by the management but only did it once when I was at a game myself.

 

I will say that a number of clubs do adviise me they MARK DOWN a referee if he does not caution when it should be...i was at one game and the referee didn't caution on a couple of occasions, and was advised by the team manager and the secretary that the mark would be down although their team had won the game, as if those players went into the 1st team and did whatever they did, they would get either cautions, or a red card. The referees also have to relaise that the clubs what the players to learn now and not be suprised when they get into the first team...

[Smudge]

So like everything else in this great game,the money trickles down from the Top,and never reaches the lower echelons of the Pyramid.How many assessors do they have at Step 5,6, very few by your Remarks.And Refs are like Players they need Regular Games,and by your remarks that the poorer assistants only get games when your SHORT amazes me,do you phone clubs and tell them sorry short of Officials but your Lino aint up to scratch, but it's all we got.No wonder Players, Supporters , vent their anger at Officials.I BLAME THE F.A.Not hard working people like yourself who do a great job with limited resources.So message to Officials if you aint getting many games you know what that infers,Honest Smudge says so.

[tonydk]

So like everything else in this great game,the money trickles down from the Top,and never reaches the lower echelons of the Pyramid.How many assessors do they have at Step 5,6, very few by your Remarks.And Refs are like Players they need Regular Games,and by your remarks that the poorer assistants only get games when your SHORT amazes me,do you phone clubs and tell them sorry short of Officials but your Lino aint up to scratch, but it's all we got.No wonder Players, Supporters , vent their anger at Officials.I BLAME THE F.A.Not hard working people like yourself who do a great job with limited resources.So message to Officials if you aint getting many games you know what that infers,Honest Smudge says so.

 

 

Looks like it not worth repling to anything....

 

i stated that the assistant referees were coming to the end of their refreeing career, and that they were nor the best of the assistant referees i had on my panel...did i state they were not up to scratch!!!! All people get old, players come down from higher levels, its the same for referees. All the clubs attend a meeting at the beginning of the season and they are advised if they find any assistant referees not upto scratch in there option to e-mail or phone me and i am happy to discuss maytters. I have been told by many clubs/ and players/ that they would pefer to have an official referee as an assistant refereeand not a club person even if they were not the best....i will say i have only had ONE club do that all season, and i went to look at that assistant referee on his next game and we had a long talk about been an assistant referee. He did state that he had been rushed through by his county FA and relaised that its a lot harder than most people think. I will also advise that his marks have improved during the season after that hat, and he has advised that he wants to spend another season learning the ropes.

 

regarding the assessors...have no idea, just know that on the Suburban FL we do have a shortage of FA trained assessors as many do the league above, as well as us, the CCL and other leagues. THey of course have to give the higher leagues first choice. I do know a number of assessors who have been doing it for years and didn't what to go on a FA course. It was the same for a number of referees regarding the CRB.

 

What amazes me is the number of players who don't know the rules/ laws of the game...but hey i am only a referee!!!!