Premier League Constitution

[manager50]

We have received notification from the league that the constitution at present will consist of 21 clubs, this being the same set up as last year apart from Bedfont (no longer) and with Mole Valley replacing NGU.

 

This seems ridiculous and surely something must be done to ensure all teams have a game each weekend. This is supposed to be the premier league at a high level!

 

I know it may be a bit contentious, but it would seem that the bottom side could be relegated to division 1 if no other alternative is found, and we would then have a balanced league.

 

The league have to do something before the AGM in my opinion, as last year the evening went round and round in circles because of the same discussion, so it would be best to have a sensible and fair option in place prior to the meeting.

[Non League Nigel]

I gather the league will be quite happy to run with 21 teams but theres still a lot of issues and appeals to be sorted higher up the ladder which could still lead to someone coming down.

Coulsdons relegation has been confirmed. Knaphill lost their appeal to replace Bedfont. I wonder if it could have been different had the facillities been in place at this moment.

2 teams have dropped out of the reserve league to go into the Suburban - Hanworth Villa and South Park. Hopefully FNE and Hayes will both bring reserve sides accross

[Smudge]

Manager 50,Just being a supporter of 2 C.C.L. Teams,I find your remarks amazing,rules are put in place so promotion and relegation is done on an even basis.To get Promotion in the pyramid you must have the right ground grading by a certain date,Knaphill did not and an Appeal is quite cheeky if they did.As for saying that the bottom side in the Premier should drop down,to make it more convenient for others,so they have a game each week,that is laughable,if Molesey had been bottom,would you be singing from the same Hymn Sheet NO.The C.C.L. ran with 21 Teams in 00/01 so why not now.My solution would be to promote the Highest Placed team in Div 1,with the correct ground grading in place,at the end of last season,if they wanted promotion that is,that team being Hartley Witney

[The Fan]

I am not saying i think smudge is right, but at least it a proposal. i think this is what 50 is after. time i think for the management committe

to stand up and lead. please everyone look at the bigger picture, and lets try to do best for everyone. i know we have a lot of deep thinking posters, dont be wise after the event. put your thoughts out there now.

[Farnborough fc manager]

There are still on going appeals at the FA this week and next so nothing is certain yet throughout the pyramid.

[Krooner]

I agree there should be an even number of teams in the Prem. 20 or 22 which ever is the easiest way but as ct says still appeals going on. Not sure CT will be succesful in theirs though

[manager50]

Smudge - if you read what I said it was that the bottom side !"could" be relegated "if no other alternative is found". My point is that we will meet at the AGM and, like last year, the evening will become heated and tense, with the likelyhood that everyone will eventually agree to a proposal in an effort to get the meeting concluded - I have been to many such meetings where people are guided by the crowd. This is why the league need to come up with something prior to the evening that is fair and just, but sensible.

I was not involved with the CCL in 2000/2001, but that was 10 years ago for gods sake! This league has developed dramatically since then, with the recent years progressing at a great pace. We now have several clubs in the league who can easily get into the higher levels with their facilities and we are all fighting for the one spot - all of us are of the view that this and other leagues deserve the opportunity to challenge for a second spot in the Ryman or whichever league above. If we simply accept that we cannot do anything about the size of the league, we surely lose some credibility with others and they could point at this weakness as another reason to rebuke any challenge for another spot. Look at how the Ryman are trying to bully CCL teams over the groundsharing and you will see exactly what I mean.

The league need to be strong and ensure that their Premier divison is a balanced one, and whatever measure they need to take to do so should be enforced. I am not saying that it should be the option above, but the clubs all knew that the bottom three would go down unless circumstances prevailed. We all moan about the leagues above stagnating and teams getting reprieves, so we cannot be hypocritical with our own league.

Molesey would certainly have accepted any reprieve should it have been offered, even though the financial strain would have continued to make it difficult, but it was not and we accepted what the league told us.

I would certainly rather promote from below - or across - but that may not be possible due to the league constitution and rules - that is where the league management committee come in.

We are all part of the pyramid and events all over the country have had an effect - positive and negative - right through this close season and many before.

You do also say that you are a supporter of two CCL teams so maybe you are not involved with what goes on behind the scenes - please accept my apologies if I have mis-interpreted what you have said - but clubs do need games at their grounds over the weekend to generate funds to cover the costs of running the football, so some would be hurt by having nothing for two weeks (one free, second away). Plus, in my honest opinion any senior league running with an odd number just is not right.

It is a view and, as you can see a strongly held one.

And ,whilst I take heed of some of your points, I genuinely feel this is the correct option for our league to take.

[Green_Fingers]

 

We now have several clubs in the league who can easily get into the higher levels with their facilities and we are all fighting for the one spot - all of us are of the view that this and other leagues deserve the opportunity to challenge for a second spot in the Ryman or whichever league above.

 

What would be your proposal to change this Manager50 - bearing in mind there are 14 Step Five Leagues and if 2nd place was a promotion slot in all 14 Leagues it would mean relegating 3 or even 4 teams from each of the 6 Step 4 Leagues. ?

[Smudge]

Manager 50,Agree with many of your points 21 Clubs is not right,but in order to remedy the situation the League Committee need to have a set of ideas to counteract the situation,with full agreement of their Member Clubs.So they should be forward thinking like the Sussex County League were last year in promoting Horsham Y.M.C.A. who only finished 3rd,but had the ground grading to be Promoted to Ryman South,which conveniently tied in with a Groundshare with Horsham.So for instance if a Premier Team did not have the Ground Grading to be promoted,then the next available side with a Grading is promoted by the League.A League is only as strong as it's Board and Members if they are united,be interesting to see what part they have taken over the Groundsharing issue if any.I agree that the C.C.L. is on an upward curve,but it is new blood that is driving it forward,maybe some of this new blood should be involved in Planning the future,not each looking after it's own.

[manager50]

Green Fingers,

Without labouring the point - my view is that you get your own house in order and, once you have done that, you concentrate on other issues.

However, if you analyse the Ryman South there are teams that are regularly sitting in or around the bottom of that league and are simply going nowhere. Because of the limited options for leagues such as ours, plus the more recent spate of clubs going "t***s up", these teams are staying where they are and as I said before, stagnating. So, why not relegate 4 teams and regularly freshen up the leagues. We certainly have enough sides capable of replacing them and, looking at then Non League Paper every Sunday, it is clear that there are loads of team in other feeder leagues who have applied for promotion. We have three relegation spots in the CCL, so maybe three. At least that may bring the option of play offs, either internally or with other leagues, and thus give the stronger feeder leagues another spot.

But, back to the original point, which is our league. Such a proposal from the CCL to do what is suggested above would carry more weight if we ensure our league looks the part - an odd number in the league will not do that in my opinion, as it will appear that we do not have our house in order as all the leagues above us will have the correct balance.

It's quiet simple - the league management committee need to put something in place to ensure we have a structured and balanced league, and whatever measures that requires should be taken. Whe Ryma 2 was disbanded some years back there was a certain amount of soul searching, as many teams were demoted on ground gradings, regardless of league standing. The upshot of this is that the move realistically improved the CCL overall, and is a major reason we are much stronger now. It's over to them to come up with something.

[Green_Fingers]

Manager 50,Agree with many of your points 21 Clubs is not right,but in order to remedy the situation the League Committee need to have a set of ideas to counteract the situation,with full agreement of their Member Clubs.So they should be forward thinking like the Sussex County League were last year in promoting Horsham Y.M.C.A. who only finished 3rd,but had the ground grading to be Promoted to Ryman South,which conveniently tied in with a Groundshare with Horsham.So for instance if a Premier Team did not have the Ground Grading to be promoted,then the next available side with a Grading is promoted by the League.A League is only as strong as it's Board and Members if they are united,be interesting to see what part they have taken over the Groundsharing issue if any.I agree that the C.C.L. is on an upward curve,but it is new blood that is driving it forward,maybe some of this new blood should be involved in Planning the future,not each looking after it's own.

 

Smudge, excuse my ignorance but did Horsham YMCA get promoted as well as League Champions or instead of. In other words did the Sussex League have a case to argue one of their members deserved the promotion?

 

 

 

[NICE GUY]

There are still on going appeals at the FA this week and next so nothing is certain yet throughout the pyramid.

 

CHERTSEYTOWN, CHERTSEY BOY WHEN IS YOUR FA APPEAL HAPPENING IN AN ATTEMPT THAT CHERTSEY CAN GET PROMOTED ?

 

ALSO READ THAT CHERTSEY HAVE LOST THE SERVICES OF BOTH GAVIN & STUART BAMFORD WHO HAVE GONE TO SIGN FOR BEACONSFIELD SYCOB ?

[Farnborough fc manager]

The Bamfords left well before the end of the season and we wish them well. Sadly Stuart hadn't played for over six months due to injury.

 

I am bound not to comment on our appeal. Needless to say we have a very strong case indeed which in reality means we have no chance and are bound to fail! ! All will be confirmed before the AGM

[Smudge]

Manager 50,Agree with many of your points 21 Clubs is not right,but in order to remedy the situation the League Committee need to have a set of ideas to counteract the situation,with full agreement of their Member Clubs.So they should be forward thinking like the Sussex County League were last year in promoting Horsham Y.M.C.A. who only finished 3rd,but had the ground grading to be Promoted to Ryman South,which conveniently tied in with a Groundshare with Horsham.So for instance if a Premier Team did not have the Ground Grading to be promoted,then the next available side with a Grading is promoted by the League.A League is only as strong as it's Board and Members if they are united,be interesting to see what part they have taken over the Groundsharing issue if any.I agree that the C.C.L. is on an upward curve,but it is new blood that is driving it forward,maybe some of this new blood should be involved in Planning the future,not each looking after it's own.

 

Smudge, excuse my ignorance but did Horsham YMCA get promoted as well as League Champions or instead of. In other words did the Sussex League have a case to argue one of their members deserved the promotion?

 

 

INSTEAD OF ,THE TOP 2 TEAMS NEVER HAD THE GRADING.

[Green_Fingers]

So would I be right to conclude that no 2 teams from the same Step 5 League have gained promotion to Step 4 in the same season?

[manager50]

One clear view that seems to be coming out of this debate is that we generally feel that a 21 club Premier Division is not right.

Mention has been made eslewhere on this forum about the Suburban League Constitution. The South Division has an even number, but more clubs, the other Division is odd and with less clubs. These divisions have accomodated the influx of new teams. The "Premier" has an even number and less teams that the others, because that is their main division and they will not tinker with that. Not being funny, but the CCL is far more prestigious than the Suburban, so we should have every reason to think we should be taking similar control over our league.

We also seem clear on the fact that there should be a plan of action at the AGM so that we have the opportunity to disuss and decide, and the general view is that the Management Committee are the ones who ought to be the people who drive this.

However, this forum alone seems to have a large amount of people who (a) care about the league ( care about their clubs © know what they are talking about.

Whilst I said that Molesey accepted their fate two seasons ago, it still hurts that we came down and I would rather any movement within the Premier Division was upwards (22) not downwards (20), as getting back into any league from which you have been relegated is difficult as many clubs have found at all levels. I would therefore not wish that on any club if there is an alternative.

We must assume that the current league standings willl remain, as Epsom should be okay following the Godalming decision, and I must admit I have no idea what Chertsey are doing as we have already had our one team promoted - so 21 teams at present.

If the general feeling is that we promote from within, we get to Worcester Park. My understanding is that they do not and will not have the required ground grading, so cannot be recommended. We then get to Knaphill, who I understand did not have the required work done, but insist they will have before the season starts. They achieved a promotion spot, so would the members feel that they perhaps deserve the chance to gain from the current situation. I agree with Smudge that we should look to encourage teams to improve and, having been to Knaphill many, many years ago I would suggest that to be where they are now shows that someone has worked extremely hard to even be considered as an option - that is not a dig by the way, it is a compliment.

I will be at the AGM, and I imagine that several of our posters will also be there in an official capacity, or at least have some input to what direction their particular club wants to go. If the option of Knaphill is what most clubs believe, why not get together and put this to the AGM.

Now, if the Knaphill situation is not a sclear as I think, they may not be the option. The problem is that to go further than third place may be against the constituion and rules, which is what I suggested before. If it could be done, we would then be looking at Lammas, who have the Ashford groundshare in place for next year - would clubs then vote for that?

[Smudge]

It is called common sense everyone wants a 22 Team Premier League for A).Financial ReasonsB)Competitive Reasons.But unfortunately many Premier Teams will not have the Grading for Promotion to the Ryman League due to not having enclosed grounds,Turnstiles,etc How many of the 22 Teams applied for promotion last year 6 maybe,many may not even want it,happy where they are like,Whitley Bay have been over the past few seasons,but 3 WEMBLEY APPEARANCES in that time.Knaphill will have the ground yes,but will a bar be available,or will it be cans of Fosters like last year.The F.A. do not want progress that is my opinion,and at every turn hinder Clubs with their ambitions,like they did with Staines Lammas and there appeal..

[Krooner]

Best thread for ages.

 

If we look at the CCL from a few years ago it has improved with the influx of Ryman 2 clubs. CCL clubs have upped their game and become better clubs.

 

Div 1 was a state and that has now improved really well too with some great clubs coming in. I am afraid what we cannot do is to promote clubs who dont have the basic requirements. Lights are part of that basic requirement and I am afraid you cannot take a promise that lights will be there for the start of the season as a 100% guarantee that they will be because there are always problems with these things. I personally think they should promote the next side with the lights and tell them to get the rest of the ground up to scratch by end of the season if work is required on it.

 

Tough one to call and no matter what happens there will be moans and appeals all over the shop no doubt.

[Krooner]

Best thread for ages.

 

If we look at the CCL from a few years ago it has improved with the influx of Ryman 2 clubs. CCL clubs have upped their game and become better clubs.

 

Div 1 was a state and that has now improved really well too with some great clubs coming in. I am afraid what we cannot do is to promote clubs who dont have the basic requirements. Lights are part of that basic requirement and I am afraid you cannot take a promise that lights will be there for the start of the season as a 100% guarantee that they will be because there are always problems with these things. I personally think they should promote the next side with the lights and tell them to get the rest of the ground up to scratch by end of the season if work is required on it.

 

Tough one to call and no matter what happens there will be moans and appeals all over the shop no doubt.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

perhaps go to 20 teams and have two spare weekends/matchnights towards end of season to catch up on snow and rain from the winter?

 

it would mean Dorking going down but that might be good for the long term.

 

Id rather see them have a winning season in the first division and having a rightful place in the prem 2011/12 than lose all next season and be in div 1 2011/12.