Referees/Assistant Referees

[Rhodes]

2 hours ago, petethegreek said:

1 Goal. As long as the ball is not thrown in a violent manner then no offense has been committed.
2 Goal. I have come close a few times!!!
3 No goal. Play stops once the whistle is blown. 

These are the detailed answers to that one and you got them all correct:

1) Assuming the throw wasn’t unduly hard or intended to cause injury, the attacker hasn’t committed any offence here, so award the goal. As for the defender: he didn’t actually delay the restart, so he avoids a booking this time. But have a word: warn him that if he does this again he’ll be cautioned. The laws require him to be at least two metres away from the point at which the ball is thrown, and he must know that. 
2) You and your assistants are considered part of the field of play – so any collision like this is considered a “play on” situation, especially when it is accidental. As for the offside call – as always, you can only base your decisions on what you and your colleagues have seen. You cannot disallow a goal based on a hunch and your assistant was in no position to contribute. So award the goal and check your colleague is OK.
3) It’s too late for that. This is poor officiating – you should always delay a decision in cases like this. But having blown the whistle you now have to follow through and award the penalty, then decide whether or not to send the keeper off. Technically, he did not deny a goalscoring opportunity because the ball rolled into the net, and only your poor refereeing stopped it being awarded. But, having awarded the penalty – meaning the game stopped when the foul was committed – I would say you do now need to dismiss him, it’s a self-inflicted mess.

[Rhodes]

15 hours ago, petethegreek said:

1 2nd YC and therefore RC. Could go RC if deemed offense gesture.
2 Defender is YC for reckless challenge. Striker is YC for Unsporting Behavior.
3 Goal stands. You cannot disallow unless you have seen a hand ball.

These are the detailed answers to that one, you are good at this aren't you:

1) While it’s tempting to look the other way, you’re there to apply the laws fairly and consistently. If a player removes his shirt (or covers his head with it) to celebrate a goal he must be cautioned – no exceptions. As he has disappeared down the tunnel already, you’ll have to advise him in the dressing room area that he has earned a second yellow. Request a PA announcement to tell the crowd what has happened, and that his team will play the second half with ten men. You may also need to report him for leaving the field without permission (another yellow card offence) if he crossed the line before you blew for half-time.
2) The player was out of control, so you have to show him a second yellow, followed by a red. Players should understand that they have a duty of care towards opponents. As for the striker – have a strong word with him: you don’t need his advice on how to referee the game, and by failing to take evasive action he has endangered himself for no good reason. The defender would have been shown a yellow for his reckless challenge whether or not contact was made.
3) First, tell him to stop screaming. Second, check with your assistant in case he saw anything you missed. Assuming he didn’t, the goal stands. You can only work on the confirmed information available to you – Hawk-Eye saw the ball cross the line, and that’s all you know for sure. You can’t start basing your decisions on mysterious patterns on the ball, or on who may or may not have muddy hands.

[Rhodes]

15 hours ago, petethegreek said:

Rhodes - I was expecting you to ask me about the Aston Villa goal yesterday.?

Strangely enough I was going to after I had got over the shock of the decision, very coincidentally, as you may have seen, the same incident happened in the Italian Super Cup Final between Napoli and Juventus on the same night however Cristiano Ronaldo was deemed to be offside:

Cristiano Ronaldo ‘offside’ incident shows inconsistency with rule after Man City 2-0 Aston Villa | GiveMeSport

Aston Villa's Tyrone Mings SLAMS offside rule as 'nonsense' after Man City's opener | Daily Mail Online

[petethegreek]

4 hours ago, Rhodes said:

Strangely enough I was going to after I had got over the shock of the decision, very coincidentally, as you may have seen, the same incident happened in the Italian Super Cup Final between Napoli and Juventus on the same night however Cristiano Ronaldo was deemed to be offside:

Cristiano Ronaldo ‘offside’ incident shows inconsistency with rule after Man City 2-0 Aston Villa | GiveMeSport

Aston Villa's Tyrone Mings SLAMS offside rule as 'nonsense' after Man City's opener | Daily Mail Online

I would also have kept the flag down. 

Not off side within the meaning of the Law but don't be surprised if that part of off side is soon changed.

[Rhodes]

On 22/01/2021 at 14:30, petethegreek said:

I would also have kept the flag down. 
Not off side within the meaning of the Law but don't be surprised if that part of off side is soon changed

You are spot on again, I am impressed:

Man City's controversial goal against Aston Villa sparks rule change after referees' chiefs agree it was morally wrong (thesun.co.uk)

From now on, a similar situation, when an attacker retreats from an offside position to win the ball before the defending player has the chance to pass or clear, he WILL be flagged offside.

[petethegreek]

5 hours ago, Rhodes said:

You are spot on again, I am impressed:

Man City's controversial goal against Aston Villa sparks rule change after referees' chiefs agree it was morally wrong (thesun.co.uk)

From now on, a similar situation, when an attacker retreats from an offside position to win the ball before the defending player has the chance to pass or clear, he WILL be flagged offside.

This is the difference between England and the rest of Europe.

We do our own thing (see interpretation of VAR as another example) and Europe does things correctly.

 

[petethegreek]

17 minutes ago, petethegreek said:

This is the difference between England and the rest of Europe.

We do our own thing (see interpretation of VAR as another example) and Europe does things correctly.

 

I rest my case.

https://www.givemesport.com/1642943-west-brom-vs-man-city-var-drama-as-joao-cancelo-scores-offside-premier-league-goal

[Rhodes]

PetetheGreek - Let's give this another go, I'm sure I can catch you with your trousers down this time. Strangely I touched earlier on Roger East sending the wrong player off during a game back in 2014/15 but I don't think his red card was ripped from his hand, that would attain a heavy fine wouldn't it even if the red card was later over turned:

[petethegreek]

2 hours ago, Rhodes said:

PetetheGreek - Let's give this another go, I'm sure I can catch you with your trousers down this time. Strangely I touched earlier on Roger East sending the wrong player off during a game back in 2014/15 but I don't think his red card was ripped from his hand, that would attain a heavy fine wouldn't it even if the red card was later over turned:

So you want to catch me with my trousers down.

1 Re-take. Try and get the affected area cleared of water. Worse case scenario would be to abandon the game. Play has to correctly re-start in Law. 

2 Error or no error by the Referee, the actions of the player would warrant a RC for VC (technical assault). As a RC has already been shown then this would be reported as an EMI / Misconduct.

3 YC to each player for adopting an aggressive attitude (Unsporting Behavior).

Have my trousers survived?

[Rhodes]

13 hours ago, petethegreek said:

1 Re-take. Try and get the affected area cleared of water. Worse case scenario would be to abandon the game. Play has to correctly re-start in Law. 
2 Error or no error by the Referee, the actions of the player would warrant a RC for VC (technical assault). As a RC has already been shown then this would be reported as an EMI / Misconduct.
3 YC to each player for adopting an aggressive attitude (Unsporting Behavior).

These are the answers to that one, I'm a bit surprised at number two as Referees don't normally swallow their pride, own up to a mistake and apologise profusely to a player, can you imagine Steven Conway doing that ?

1) Stop the game: the ball has to be in the quadrant, or at least overlapping the quadrant’s line. So first have the groundstaff sweep the water away until the ball can be positioned to your satisfaction for a proper corner. If that doesn’t work, suspend the game to allow time for staff to work on the corner area with forks and sand. If that proves impossible, you’ll have to abandon.

2) Swallow your pride, admit your mistake and withdraw the red card. Apologise to the player - but also tell him that you will not tolerate any further confrontational behaviour. To avoid this sort of error, referees are always instructed to take names when they are issuing cautions.

3) Tell them to grow up, and if the physical confrontation warrants it, issue cautions. Then play it by the book: tell them it’s your responsibility to take the match ball off the field of play at the end of the game, after which you will hand it over to home officials. What the home club does with it after that is down to them. 

[Rhodes]

Who recalls this incident during a SSML Premier Division fixture between Holmer Green and Edgware Town, at Watchet Lane on Saturday 29 October 2016, resulting in the game to be abandoned and made the National press, the Referee in question was Mr Simon Higgins. I gather the game was replayed in March, coincidentally the sides had only just met on Tuesday 25 October 2016 at Watchet Lane in a Division One Cup Second Round tie:

Referee abandons non-league game after 13 minutes because of a moaning fan (thesun.co.uk)

Referee abandons game after 13 minutes in response to moaning fan | Referees | The Guardian

The Non-League Football Paper

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Rhodes

[petethegreek]

3 hours ago, Rhodes said:

These are the answers to that one, I'm a bit surprised at number two as Referees don't normally swallow their pride, own up to a mistake and apologise profusely to a player, can you imagine Steven Conway doing that ?

1) Stop the game: the ball has to be in the quadrant, or at least overlapping the quadrant’s line. So first have the groundstaff sweep the water away until the ball can be positioned to your satisfaction for a proper corner. If that doesn’t work, suspend the game to allow time for staff to work on the corner area with forks and sand. If that proves impossible, you’ll have to abandon.

2) Swallow your pride, admit your mistake and withdraw the red card. Apologise to the player - but also tell him that you will not tolerate any further confrontational behaviour. To avoid this sort of error, referees are always instructed to take names when they are issuing cautions.

3) Tell them to grow up, and if the physical confrontation warrants it, issue cautions. Then play it by the book: tell them it’s your responsibility to take the match ball off the field of play at the end of the game, after which you will hand it over to home officials. What the home club does with it after that is down to them. 

For Nr 2, admit your error if you are 100% sure that a mistake has occurred. You would then be within your rights to take disciplinary action for the player ripping the card from your hand.

You need to balance that offense with your match control.

Now Steven Conway is another story............

At least my trousers survived.

[petethegreek]

2 hours ago, Rhodes said:

Who recalls this incident during a SSML Premier Division fixture between Holmer Green and Edgware Town, at Watchet Lane on Saturday 29 October 2016, resulting in the game to be abandoned and made the National press, the Referee in question was Mr Simon Higgins. I gather the game was replayed in March, coincidentally the sides had only just met on Tuesday 25 October 2016 at Watchet Lane in a Division One Cup Second Round tie:

Referee abandons non-league game after 13 minutes because of a moaning fan (thesun.co.uk)

Referee abandons game after 13 minutes in response to moaning fan | Referees | The Guardian

The Non-League Football Paper

 

I remember the incident well.

I recall saying at the time that the game would be replayed as there were no grounds for the abandonment.

The Referee remained adamant that he would take the same action again.

He did not last long on my local Competition after that.

[Rhodes]

3 hours ago, petethegreek said:

Now Steven Conway is another story............

Yes, I remember Mr Conway sent off the so called Great One (Clement Temile) from the dugout during a SSML Division One fixture between Brache Sparta and Kentish Town on Saturday 4 November 2006, I remember the date and game as if it was yesterday. This was a former Nigerian International player who played at the very highest level of World football, I think Mr Conway knew exactly who he was and was trying to prove some sort of point:

Edited January 28, 2021 by Rhodes

[petethegreek]

32 minutes ago, Rhodes said:

Yes, I remember Mr Conway sent off the so called Great One (Clement Temile) from the dugout during a SSML Division One fixture between Brache Sparta and Kentish Town on Saturday 4 November 2006, I remember the date and game as if it was yesterday. This was a former Nigerian International player who played at the very highest level of World football, I think Mr Conway knew exactly who he was and was trying to prove some sort of point:

So what was he 'sent off' for?

[Rhodes]

1 hour ago, petethegreek said:

So what was he 'sent off' for?

I think Tring Athletic's Manager, Chris Juraszek, who occasionally posts on here, will be far better placed to answer that question as Chris was in the Brache Sparta dugout that afternoon right next to where Mr Conway just sauntered across and dismissed Clement from the technical area, I was standing with the new The 61 FC (Luton) Manager on the other side of the pitch and he couldn't believe what he was seeing.

[Rhodes]

On 28/01/2021 at 15:13, petethegreek said:

Now Steven Conway is another story............

PetetheGreek - Mr Conway is Middlesex FA affiliated isn't he, he seems to get everywhere and has always had his fair shair of Cup Finals, unlike yourself in recent years:

Edited January 30, 2021 by Rhodes

[petethegreek]

1 hour ago, Rhodes said:

PetetheGreek - Mr Conway is Middlesex FA affiliated isn't he, he seems to get everywhere and has always had his fair shair of Cup Finals, unlike yourself in recent years:

The limelight seems to follow him.

[Rhodes]

7 hours ago, petethegreek said:

The limelight seems to follow him

Have you Officiated much with Steven Conway out of interest and have you got along okay with him at games, my impression always was that he liked to wear the trousers and what he said went even if his Assistants had a different opinion. I remember a Division One fixture you did together at Bedford Town Reserves, around Christmas time, in the same season of your ninety minutes of fame and that final Biggleswade Town v Chalfont St Peter game. To be fair to Mr Conway he never minded travelling to far flung places or being allocated a Division Two fixture.  

[petethegreek]

1 hour ago, Rhodes said:

Have you Officiated much with Steven Conway out of interest and have you got along okay with him at games, my impression always was that he liked to wear the trousers and what he said went even if his Assistants had a different opinion. I remember a Division One fixture you did together at Bedford Town Reserves, around Christmas time, in the same season of your ninety minutes of fame and that final Biggleswade Town v Chalfont St Peter game. To be fair to Mr Conway he never minded travelling to far flung places or being allocated a Division Two fixture.  

He is OK to get on with......most of the time.

[Rhodes]

PetetheGreek - As it is so quiet do you want to do another one of these, I've chosen one with an Assistant in and number three is interesting isn't it, how could the Referee possibly know or realise that the player is one card away from a suspension, the player wouldn't need to stand right in front of him to get a caution anyway would he:

[petethegreek]

1 hour ago, Rhodes said:

PetetheGreek - As it is so quiet do you want to do another one of these, I've chosen one with an Assistant in and number three is interesting isn't it, how could the Referee possibly know or realise that the player is one card away from a suspension, the player wouldn't need to stand right in front of him to get a caution anyway would he:

1 I've done the same at North Greenford United where the surface immediately behind the touchline was near impossible to run on. I only stepped back off the pitch when players were close by. In the example you give, the Referee would ignore the players. If the conditions deteriorated then the game would be abandoned. Years ago you could run left wings so had the option of switching your A/R's.

2 You cannot add lines. This line would need to be removed. Some GK's deliberately scuff the pitch for the same reason as illustrated. That would be a YC.

3 Love Nr 3. I have had this done in a local game. I cancelled the League fixture and the player missed the Cup final. In the old days, Clubs used to appeal RC so as to delay a suspension so a player did not miss a Cup final. That was when suspensions were based on days rather than games.
 

[Rhodes]

12 hours ago, petethegreek said:

1 I've done the same at North Greenford United where the surface immediately behind the touchline was near impossible to run on. I only stepped back off the pitch when players were close by. In the example you give, the Referee would ignore the players. If the conditions deteriorated then the game would be abandoned. Years ago you could run left wings so had the option of switching your A/R's.
2 You cannot add lines. This line would need to be removed. Some GK's deliberately scuff the pitch for the same reason as illustrated. That would be a YC.

3 Love Nr 3. I have had this done in a local game. I cancelled the League fixture and the player missed the Cup final. In the old days, Clubs used to appeal RC so as to delay a suspension so a player did not miss a Cup final. That was when suspensions were based on days rather than games.

Here are the answers and you are pretty much spot on again, I will have to find more difficult ones:

1) Your key role as a referee is to make correct, clear decisions – and to do that you need a supply of accurate information from your assistants. So if this assistant needs to come on to the field in order to keep up with play then he should do so – especially when the ball is not close. Explain that to the defenders, and ask them to get on with the game. Your only other option, if the surface really is impossible, is to ask your two assistants to run the left wings instead, which was often done when I refereed on less-than-perfect pitches in my younger days.
2) Any markings other than those specified in the Laws aren’t allowed – so delay the restart until the keeper’s line is removed, and until the original lines are uncovered. I’ve had several games in the past where I’ve had to delay the kick-off for lines to be uncovered, and it’s not unknown for groundstaff to use dye to make lines more visible in the winter. But if it proves impossible to make the surface visible and playable, then an abandonment may be the right call. 
3) Whatever his motives – and you’re far too busy to be mind-reading – the Laws are clear: issue him with a yellow card. You can’t pick and choose which laws to enforce – but you can include full details of what happened in your post-match report to the authorities.

[petethegreek]

5 hours ago, Rhodes said:

Here are the answers and you are pretty much spot on again, I will have to find more difficult ones:

1) Your key role as a referee is to make correct, clear decisions – and to do that you need a supply of accurate information from your assistants. So if this assistant needs to come on to the field in order to keep up with play then he should do so – especially when the ball is not close. Explain that to the defenders, and ask them to get on with the game. Your only other option, if the surface really is impossible, is to ask your two assistants to run the left wings instead, which was often done when I refereed on less-than-perfect pitches in my younger days.
2) Any markings other than those specified in the Laws aren’t allowed – so delay the restart until the keeper’s line is removed, and until the original lines are uncovered. I’ve had several games in the past where I’ve had to delay the kick-off for lines to be uncovered, and it’s not unknown for groundstaff to use dye to make lines more visible in the winter. But if it proves impossible to make the surface visible and playable, then an abandonment may be the right call. 
3) Whatever his motives – and you’re far too busy to be mind-reading – the Laws are clear: issue him with a yellow card. You can’t pick and choose which laws to enforce – but you can include full details of what happened in your post-match report to the authorities.

 

You would be surprised as to how many trick questions you get in Laws of the Game exams.

These are fairly tame compared to them but some do need some thinking.

[Rhodes]

PetetheGreek - What is your take on this tackle which Watford's Nathaniel Chalobah got a yellow card for recently, the likes of Billy Bremner, Norman Hunter, Dave Mackay and Tommy Smith must be turning in their graves mustn't they at what our game has sadly become: