suspected suicide bomber has been shot by armed police

[Football Man]

Quote:

Steph said:
As I said

"We live in a sick society"

We also live in a "gutter press" society and many ordinary people adopt a gutter press mentality.

A concern I have reading through this thread is that several people were happy to make comments right at the start calling the dead man a [****!!****] and saying that he deserved to die for what he had tried to do. These comments were all made before the full facts were known and based on assumption. This is the sort of guilty until proven innocent attitude that modern society has been sucked into by the red top papers and other gutter press over the last couple of decades.

Perhaps the biggest worry here is that even though we now know the police made a mistake and the man was innocent, nobody has been big enough to apologise for their abusive and vitriolic comments towards this person. Perhaps today, the day of his funeral, might be an appropriate time for some of you to do so.

Then again, you can always take the gutter press attitude and forget it ever happened once you've realised your mistake.

[Tom S]

Oh dear. Another 'loony lefty':) Welcome aboard PBTFC: that's you, me and Steph so far.

[lovely stuff]

I think its the other way round Tom. The Muslim community have not been that forthcoming with information with regards to possible terrorist activity in their communities in the past.

 

The Muslim communtity are know becoming uneasy and worried about the spotlight being place on them because of these attacks.They are also frightened that resentment towards their communitis may rise if more atrocities happen.Under that climate,i suspect the muslim community in general will be more willing to co-operate now,because every terrorist attack makes the decent muslim community feel less safe.So they now have a vested interest in making sure futher bombings do not happen.

 

Of course the Muslim community should not feel alienated from society in general,but i believe that they have not helped that situation themselves.Understanding and tollerance is a two way street.I hope the decent people from both sides can join together and fight this evil, for the sake of all of us.

[Mr Happy]

I agree with comments about the gutter press and people should stop and think first and ensure they have facts right beforespouting. HOwever, I stand by my previous comments.

 

Also, we should all say a prayer today for the guy who lost his life. It was an awful thing to happen and let us all hope (regardless of our political views) that something like this does not happen again.

[Tom S]

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
I think its the other way round Tom. The Muslim community have not been that forthcoming with information with regards to possible terrorist activity in their communities in the past.

I don't suppose too many realised that there were a few people going beyond empty rhetoric to actual terrorism - even the families were surprised. However now that we're all aware, the community will be best place to spot the early signs and tip off the authorities who can then investigate.

[BladeRunner]

Quote:

Tom S said:

Quote:

The Blade said:
I agree with mr happy steph is talking out of his ars£ . Lefty's like steph will give our country away to these people . I travel the busses each day and I get very nervous when a woman waring a yashmak gets aboard, If I had my way they wouldn't be allowed to wear them on public transport in this climate. The police have an almost impossible job trying to cope with these fanatics and I think the police have done a great job in nailing these idiots .About 20 arrested so far this week. I have no doubt steph will say their human rights have been violated and the police are persecuting them in some way. Keep talking much more tripe steph and you may lose your friends as the majority dont think loony left like you mate.

So you think ALL muslims are suspect because of the activities of a few nutters? I suppose you also wanted all Irish Catholics expelled in the 1970s because of the activitries of the IRA.

Thankfully the vast majority of this country rejects the ramblings of the BNP and others.

I have never had any sympathetic views with the B N P / N F .I do however use public transport each and every day , And I dont mind seeing all that security and the slight inconvienience it causes,I never said all muslims are suspects but I am nervous of them, These people have a vast cultural difference from us and I believe these people are more dangerous than Irish terrorists as this situation is a worldwide threat. Most asians have come here to make an honest living ,The few do spoil it for the many.

[Hawkeye Pierce]

In a society that is based on love, trust, discipline and respect we struggle to cope with young men and women who hate, mistrust, are disciplined but disrespect us. These not very bright people are willing to die on the command of a senior officer in their terrorist army. This has set community in fear of community (and it is a two way street in this respect).

 

Under the new rules we fear every person who might fit the current description of someone who would seek to kill or hurt us in this way. We are concerned for our own safety and that of our loved ones. Bottom line is we are fearful and don't know how to cope with it. Our community/political leaders haven't yet set down a completely clear behavioural model for us all to follow because they are still scratching their heads. Normal logic has been turned upside down. Let's not lash out at each other but be understanding of all viewpoints.

 

This whole episode has made me appreciate our Police afresh.

[Gazza]

Quote:

Potters Bar Town FC said:
Perhaps the biggest worry here is that even though we now know the police made a mistake and the man was innocent, nobody has been big enough to apologise for their abusive and vitriolic comments towards this person. Perhaps today, the day of his funeral, might be an appropriate time for some of you to do so.

Im sorry I have no sympathy for the guy what so ever, I do have plenty for his family though, they are the ones left with the pain of his loss & the confusion of probaly not knowing what was going through his mind.
I do hope in the days to come I dont hear news bulletins of them wanting compensation for their loss in the way of the £££ sign, they do, and I believe they have had, an explanation, but that is it, no £'s however many can bring him back & I dont want to still be hearing about inquests & private prosecutions 2 years from now.
I like Mr Happy still stand by my comments, they were not abusive just honest so therefore I have nothing to apologise for.

For the record I dont buy any form of newspaper (except the NLP occasionaly)as I cant stand either the tabloids or the spreadsheets, they are all the same level.

[MbrunoB]

Quote:

Softie said:
In a society that is based on love, trust, discipline and respect we struggle to cope with young men and women who hate, mistrust, are disciplined but disrespect us. These not very bright people are willing to die on the command of a senior officer in their terrorist army. This has set community in fear of community (and it is a two way street in this respect).

Under the new rules we fear every person who might fit the current description of someone who would seek to kill or hurt us in this way. We are concerned for our own safety and that of our loved ones. Bottom line is we are fearful and don't know how to cope with it. Our community/political leaders haven't yet set down a completely clear behavioural model for us all to follow because they are still scratching their heads. Normal logic has been turned upside down. Let's not lash out at each other but be understanding of all viewpoints.

This whole episode has made me appreciate our Police afresh.

I dont think it is correct to say they are not bright as this is as bad as saying all muslims are terroists, the most you could say is that they are mis-guided.

Over the past two thousand years how many acts have been carried out in the name of christianity from the Crusades to missionaries forcing their religion on to others, same fight different side and time.

All over the world one religion is fighting another because they believe their way is the only correct way and there are people who can twist and push their version of their religion onto others so it is not just muslims and we all need to stop this but that wouldn't suit everybody.

The police have my backing but they MUST still be accountable for their actions or where do we draw the line?

[lovely stuff]

Quote:

this is as bad as saying all muslims are terroists,

I don't think anyone is saying that all muslims are terrorists.Of course ,only a very tiny minority are.

But it is also a fact that the vast majority of terrorists in the world today, are Muslim.

Why that is,and what we do about it ,is a very complex matter.

[Hawkeye Pierce]

I don't think I mentioned religion. I talked about base social values.

 

When I started out working in London back in the early 1980's there were anarchists protesting from time to time. They didn't like the status quo either and wanted to overturn it. The worst they did though was break a few windows or get in a physical fight. These young people similarly exasperate their parents and appear a bit more determined to pursue the goals they seek.

[Steph]

The fear of terrorism is totally irrational and if people are fearful they should understand all the risks they run in their daily life.

 

Posters reading this stand more chance of death in their own home than being a victim of terrorism. Are we fearful when we go up and down stairs - of course not - however in around 4 weeks more people would have died on the stairs in their home then in the terrorist attack on July 7th. Already more people have died from accidents in their home than any terrorist attack.

 

The presence of the police in our railway carriages (There were 3 of them in my carriage on the metropolitan line yesterday) is reinforcing the anxiety of the population in order to maintain our leader's position and to demonstrate that our policemen are wonderful.

 

I was in court yesterday and had my bag searched, this is done every time I am in court, however yesterday they removed a phillips screwdriver. What utter nonsense.

 

I have been driving in town for the past couple of days and the nee-naws are getting on my pip. These hairbrained drivers put more lives at risk than any terrorism.

 

If you want something to be fearful of be careful crossing the road not some mad nutter with a bomb.

 

In any event if we are that anxous what the hell did we vote back in the cause of this mess last May.

[Badger]

Quote:

Steph said:
These hairbrained drivers

Slightly off-topic, but the Police drivers are amongst the best trained drivers in the country, and I think they'd take offence at being described as hairbrained.

[Southport - TOWNER]

yeah I agree mostof them are bald from wearing silly hats all day!

 

cor you lot are far too serious for me!

[lovely stuff]

Quote:

In any event if we are that anxous what the hell did we vote back in the cause of this mess last May.

I agree that this governmet has not helped the situation.But i believe Blair bringing in the ludicrous 'European Human rights act' a few years ago,has put us under far greater risk of terrorist attack,that the Iraq war has.

 

Also,why are Muslims in Europe so concerned about what happens in places like Iraq ? Did christians rise up when there fellow christains were attacked and overthrown during the Balkans conflict? When Bush and Blair went to war to protect Muslims? NO. because we were sensible enough to realise it was an evil regime that was being overturned rather than some attack on our religion.

[Steph]

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
Also,why are Muslims in Europe so concerned about what happens in places like Iraq ? Did christians rise up when there fellow christains were attacked and overthrown during the Balkans conflict?

That is just not true, christians do care what goes on in the world and grieve for all dead. Christians should care about what happens in Iraq and also what happened in Stockwell tube station. It is the fact that many posters on here profess to be christian and do not seem to bother about assasination and war in our name that stops me believing in any organised religion and certainly reject any faith in an all powerful, merciful god.

John Donne, a noted 17th century christian,wrote:

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

[lovely stuff]

So you thought it was incorrect to lauch military action against Serbia,in order to halt the mass genocide in that country?

 

Are you pround that the we did not act in regards to Rwanda and let 1 million people be slaughtered? was that the correct action?

 

Was it wrong to defend ourselves militaraly from Nazi Germany in the 1940's, or should we have been passive and allowed the Nazi's to achieve world domination?

[Steph]

L.S. where in the post above have I criticised the military action in Serbia or expressed an opinion on Rwanda? Let alone mentioned Nazi Germany.

 

Remember L.S politics is a dirty game and International Politics is downright filthy.

[lovely stuff]

But you infured that a person cannot be truely Christain if they condoned war.Or did i mis understand the point you were making?

[Steph]

I inferred nothing of the kind. I merely pointed out in response to your statement which implied that christians need not be bothered with events remote from them that this is not the case.

 

I am not a pacifist but consider that before going to war all alternatives have to be considered and war is only used as a last resort.

 

i opposed the Falklands war, opposed the war over Kuwait but once started I felt that the allies in that war should have gone into Iraq and finished the job - that is taken out Sadaam Hussein.

 

The fact that Sadaam was not taken out in my opinion, directly resulted in many thousands of needless deaths in Iraq. Further it led to the war in 2003. One can also suggest that it lead to the bombing in London on July 7th but that may be stretching it too far.

 

BTW from this week's tribune,

 

"Police responsible for shooting dead Jean Charles de Menezes, the innocent Brazilian they mistook for a suicide bomber have beed described as "gung ho" by a senior trade union leader.

 

The comments by Steve Grant an official of train drivers' union Aslef, came after it emerged that, in the confusion after Mr De Menezes was shot 8 times (seven in the head and one in the shoulder) on an Underground Train at Stockwell last Friday police subsequently put a gun to the head of the train driver after he tried to flee the area.

 

There have been suggestions that the driver was targeted because of his appearance - he is of west African descent. He has been off work since the incident.

 

On Wednesday the Metropolitan Police Commisioner, Ian Blair, said that the incident involving the Tube driver was not unique and that, since the London terrorist attacks on July 7 seven innocent men - all either black of Asian have been held at gunpoint over fears that they might be suicide bombers. I has also emerged that under the police's shoot-to-kill-to-protect policy, aimed at combatting suicide bombers, no verbal warning need be given."

 

With such policing it is no wonder that someone has been killed.