Club acquired by website

[eufcintheprem]

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

I had a season ticket at arsenal for 25 years.
I stopped going premiership football about 8 years ago when it started to become more of an industry than it was already.
I had always watched hornchurch,either on a saturday when arsenal were away or a week night when arsenal weren't playing.
Non league football was always my solace,but if you put my club AFC Hornchurch in this position i would be back over arsenal like a shot as some of the ideas with this new venture you guys are about to embark on are positivly ludicrous and can only end up in unmittigating disaster.
All the best Ebbsfleet/gravesend real fans but you as supporters are being stitched up here

I maybe don't have all the facts but weren't Hornchurch taken over my a supposed sugar daddy and run at an absurdly unsustainable level? Surely this is infinitely worse?

I suppose I can see why you would be so negative in that experience.

[River Don]

Originally Posted By: Aftershow

Originally Posted By: finisterre

Good luck! I must admit I'd be worried if it were my team, but that's only natural. I admire the idea of 'fans' running a club, but hope it doesn't all go wrong.

I think the idea of fans running their clubs is a great one.

This is something completely different. The fans of Ebbsfleet are effectively being ignored, and trampled on

But haven't fans always been ignored by managers? This way you do get some say in what you see on the field.

[Eastside Urchin]

Complete rubbish

You can love your club without going to games,If you think your club is being run into the ground or Something bad is happening why on earth would you want to continue pumping your hard earned wages into the club.

What some of you people forget is that non league football is full of people who live and die for their clubs.People who earn maybe £150-£200 a week,not people who can afford to throw £35 of their money at a football wannabee managment website.

[Uncle Urchin]

Originally Posted By: andyforest

The only difference is the 20,000 fans have more chance of getting it right than 1 man.

I beg to disagree and that one point sums it all up to be frank....only a manager and his team are experienced and knowledgeable enough to pick a winning formula....if I know my NL managers LD will be scouring the situations vacant columns as I type...

[Mackster]

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

But one fan has a say,thats wrong.
Someone on here has already admitted to supporting Exeter.
How is it fair that he votes for who plays AGAINST his team.
Football isn't and shouldn't be like that

That was me supporting Exeter, and I would never sign up for MFC. We've already had plenty of jokers involved in our club (2 previous owners in jail, Uri Geller anyone). I'm only here to offer my support to the true Fleet fans who have had the rug pulled from under them today and have their club turned into some obscene experiment without having any say in any of it.

And the above point about votes is just one of many reasons why this all wrong.

We had MyFc come on our forum a couple of months trying to whip up interest in it and they were told politely to f*ck off.

[Mighty Fleet]

Just read the comments by Andy the Forest Fan and I couldn't agree more.

 

I've been a season ticket holder for years and I travel from Canterbury every week to support the Fleet, although most local people don't bother. Yes there are some good local fans that have supported the club for years, (same faces every week), but our average gates are crap.

 

This has already raised our profile and will bring in money to the club - what choice did the board really have when the local population would rather get on a bus and support Charlton or worse still the Gills.

 

Surely its a good thing if Ebbsfleet become football fan's second team? Anyone who is a member of this thing will want us to do well, not crap and lose every week.

 

Lets stay positive and see what happens!

[Eastside Urchin]

Originally Posted By: eufcintheprem

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

I had a season ticket at arsenal for 25 years.
I stopped going premiership football about 8 years ago when it started to become more of an industry than it was already.
I had always watched hornchurch,either on a saturday when arsenal were away or a week night when arsenal weren't playing.
Non league football was always my solace,but if you put my club AFC Hornchurch in this position i would be back over arsenal like a shot as some of the ideas with this new venture you guys are about to embark on are positivly ludicrous and can only end up in unmittigating disaster.
All the best Ebbsfleet/gravesend real fans but you as supporters are being stitched up here

I maybe don't have all the facts but weren't Hornchurch taken over my a supposed sugar daddy and run at an absurdly unsustainable level? Surely this is infinitely worse?

I suppose I can see why you would be so negative in that experience.

YES,and the club have learned by their mistakes,new people are their and it will not happen again.
If you have ever had the unfortunate experience to see your club go by the wall then you will know exactly how it feels and where i am coming from.But this is completely different.
For a start,had our previous owners not come in,the football club would of dissapeared into oblivion anyway as we could not live on crowds of 50 every week.as it is the reformed club still benefit from what the previous owners left behind and although the club folded they did not run away from their problems and helped to get us back to where we are now.Ryman premier division after 2 promotions in two years.

[BustaGut]

Originally Posted By: andyforest

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

In house fighting,lack of crowds.
Say all the current ebbsfleet fans become dissillusioned with the whole idea and hundreds stay away.Its ok relying on the next few games,of course the crowds will be good for a while,especially while the novelty is still there
Any club needs a fan base and that in non leqgue terms can only be provided by those who live local to gravesend,How many of the MFC new 20'000 live overseas or 100 plus miles away.
How many are going to watch farsley celtic at home on a cold january tuesday night?

How many of those fans have chanted Gravesend till I die or similar at a game. What ever happens if you love your club you stick with it.

Even Wimbledon still have AFC Wimbledon after francise FC came along and this is not nearly as extreme as that case. It's not like the club are being moved or renamed by MyFC. It's just a new trust buying it and pumping some cash and publicity in.

Do you think owners having a say over team selection is something new because it isn't. The only difference is the 20,000 fans have more chance of getting it right than 1 man.

with a voting system, I would say your open to corruption and match fixing, as no one will be answerable to the owners, as the owners will be the ones voting, it will be a bad way to go

[andyforest]

For 20,000 fans to be matchfixing it would be a bit unrealistic. Or do you mean the players? If so that can happen under any owner.

 

As I see it both parties want the club to succeed. The only way it could fail is if it is torn apart by old vs new infighting.

[BustaGut]

Originally Posted By: andyforest

For 20,000 fans to be matchfixing it would be a bit unrealistic. Or do you mean the players? If so that can happen under any owner.

As I see it both parties want the club to succeed. The only way it could fail is if it is torn apart by old vs new infighting.

I have no idea how the voting would take place £1 a minute min two mins call? Thats another £40 odd k a week :)or a computer which is able to be hacked, ask Blue Peter and TV am etc etc, they are all involved in vote fixing, why should Ebbsfleet be immune?

[Eastside Urchin]

20'000 computer nerds now invest in a football club.

I am off now to watch Tilbury V AFC Hornchurch in the Essex Senior Cup.

Its one of the stupid things that real non league fans do.

[Hirsty]

Old v New infighting ?

 

Been happening here for years mate....(never did like that Northfleet Utd lot !!

 

It's like having your house repossessed and the Baliff asking you to go for a beer with him saying....no hard feelings a ? !!

 

 

[MattWPBS]

Originally Posted By: Uncle Urchin

Originally Posted By: andyforest

The only difference is the 20,000 fans have more chance of getting it right than 1 man.

I beg to disagree and that one point sums it all up to be frank....only a manager and his team are experienced and knowledgeable enough to pick a winning formula....if I know my NL managers LD will be scouring the situations vacant columns as I type...

Sorry, but I honestly think you might be wrong. Do a quick Google search on the wisdom of crowds and read up on it. I don't mean to keep banging on about this, but it's a really fascinating concept. There's a lot of good examples of where it works incredibly, and I've actually just mentioned one of them. Google's results sort based on the results that people click on, and the pages that people link to, which is why as the day's gone on the news results on the MyFC/Ebbsfleet story have appeared on the search page. There's no realistic way you could get that info without having some way of testing the decisions the crowd makes.

If you've got the manager making suggestions, then all it needs is for most of the voters to make the right decision. You don't have a situation where one businessman has a particular favourite player and starts leaning on the manager to play him and distorting the shape of the team. It means there's no way for the Trust to act in the same way as UrchinMentalist's sugar daddy at Hornchurch.

It's the same reason there really couldn't be matchfixing - you'd need a massive majority to be in on it without any leaks. Can you imagine trying to run a conspiracy of 12,000 people?

[MattWPBS]

God, I apologise for being such a nerd about the wisdom of the crowds thing.

[River Don]

Originally Posted By: Uncle Urchin

Originally Posted By: andyforest

The only difference is the 20,000 fans have more chance of getting it right than 1 man.

I beg to disagree and that one point sums it all up to be frank....only a manager and his team are experienced and knowledgeable enough to pick a winning formula....if I know my NL managers LD will be scouring the situations vacant columns as I type...

That's like the theory only top class players have the best abilities to be a football manager but is it true in reality? Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez weren't great players where as Brian Robson was.

Dave Penney, a manager I have a lot of time for, always picks players in form, no-one is above losing their place, he's had a great deal of success with that formula. I believe the voting system inevitably will tend to lead to form players being rewarded, that's no bad thing.

[eufckev]

Originally Posted By: David Holden

I can't believe that the Trust is in favour of this.

I'm a trust member and only found out this morning at work by a Dover fan. Not sure if I'm in favour or not.

[Lager Top]

Originally Posted By: Hirsty

Old v New infighting ?

Been happening here for years mate....(never did like that Northfleet Utd lot !!

It's like having your house repossessed and the Baliff asking you to go for a beer with him saying....no hard feelings a ? !!

I feel gutted for you Hirsty. This is nothing but a joke surely? How will the manager and the players feel when they decide who's going to play by the way of an internet poll? Bloody hell, if this happened to my team I'd be livid. We got lucky at Dartford FC by getting a council that cares about it's local sporting roots. With no other options or a benefactor like Dartford Council I guess the board of GNFC thought this was the only way to progress.

I'd rather my team went out down the leagues or reformed rather than be owned by a number of IP addresses. It's a shame when non-league football is run like Football Manager 2007. A VERY SAD DAY!

[Uncle Urchin]

Originally Posted By: MattWPBS

Originally Posted By: Uncle Urchin

Originally Posted By: andyforest

The only difference is the 20,000 fans have more chance of getting it right than 1 man.

I beg to disagree and that one point sums it all up to be frank....only a manager and his team are experienced and knowledgeable enough to pick a winning formula....if I know my NL managers LD will be scouring the situations vacant columns as I type...

Sorry, but I honestly think you might be wrong. Do a quick Google search on the wisdom of crowds and read up on it. I don't mean to keep banging on about this, but it's a really fascinating concept. There's a lot of good examples of where it works incredibly, and I've actually just mentioned one of them. Google's results sort based on the results that people click on, and the pages that people link to, which is why as the day's gone on the news results on the MyFC/Ebbsfleet story have appeared on the search page. There's no realistic way you could get that info without having some way of testing the decisions the crowd makes.

If you've got the manager making suggestions, then all it needs is for most of the voters to make the right decision. You don't have a situation where one businessman has a particular favourite player and starts leaning on the manager to play him and distorting the shape of the team. It means there's no way for the Trust to act in the same way as UrchinMentalist's sugar daddy at Hornchurch.

well your theory may well have held more sway with me had you not lapsed into what the Hx sugar daddy did or didn't do.....you see I was that 'suagr daddy' and whatever we did we had good managers and good winning teams...we also sorted our own sh1te out after 04 and rebuilt the club....we didn't leave it for anyone else to do.....there are no similarities here so why you seek to make some I do not understand but no matter you are entitled to an opinion....

as to my view on the concept...well I have played and been in footie all of my near 60 years and cannot possibly see the team selection thingy working....drop that and you may just make it work if the apathy of the new fan base is kept at bay...certainly different and I have never been afraid of change....

[MattWPBS]

Originally Posted By: Uncle Urchin

well your theory may well have held more sway with me had you not lapsed into what the Hx sugar daddy did or didn't do.....you see I was that 'suagr daddy' and whatever we did we had good managers and good winning teams...we also sorted our own sh1te out after 04 and rebuilt the club....we didn't leave it for anyone else to do.....there are no similarities here so why you seek to make some I do not understand but no matter you are entitled to an opinion....

as to my view on the concept...well I have played and been in footie all of my near 60 years and cannot possibly see the team selection thingy working....drop that and you may just make it work if the apathy of the new fan base is kept at bay...certainly different and I have never been afraid of change....

Ha! I apologise for mentioning that then - I saw a couple of other people talking about bad experiences with sugar daddies at Hornchurch and made the assumption it was a comparable situation. Sorry about that, my fault entirely for taking a lazy route.

I said it elsewhere on the forum, but I think the team selection thing needs to be seen in more detail before anyone knows what the problems may or may not be with the mechanics of it. There's ways it could work, and ways it couldn't. Hopefully, it'll be one that can.

[Uncle Urchin]

Originally Posted By: MattWPBS

Originally Posted By: Uncle Urchin

well your theory may well have held more sway with me had you not lapsed into what the Hx sugar daddy did or didn't do.....you see I was that 'suagr daddy' and whatever we did we had good managers and good winning teams...we also sorted our own sh1te out after 04 and rebuilt the club....we didn't leave it for anyone else to do.....there are no similarities here so why you seek to make some I do not understand but no matter you are entitled to an opinion....

as to my view on the concept...well I have played and been in footie all of my near 60 years and cannot possibly see the team selection thingy working....drop that and you may just make it work if the apathy of the new fan base is kept at bay...certainly different and I have never been afraid of change....

Ha! I apologise for mentioning that then - I saw a couple of other people talking about bad experiences with sugar daddies at Hornchurch and made the assumption it was a comparable situation. Sorry about that, my fault entirely for taking a lazy route.

I said it elsewhere on the forum, but I think the team selection thing needs to be seen in more detail before anyone knows what the problems may or may not be with the mechanics of it. There's ways it could work, and ways it couldn't. Hopefully, it'll be one that can.

no probs and no offence taken.....of course failure is a much more effective learning tool than success and my shortcomings at Hx only served to help us in a strange way.....

I have no definitive negatives or positives really about this but I do think that ebbsfleet is a good choice for reasons that I will not go into on here....as for the deal itself well there are a lot of plusses thats for sure and a few minus points that will have to be dealt with.....to ensure success you will have to have a good manager not a PR coach....that means sh1tcan the team selection thingy and then you may start winning the game....

just my view....