Worthing v Enfield Town

[old towner]

4 minutes ago, Crusty Lee said:

I imagine the players aren't allowed to talk but does anyone know what any of them think? Are they doing what they're told or ignoring it?

I agree we've had a good season and still have every chance. I have a saying that the table doesn't lie but it doesn't tell the whole truth either. We are still 3rd despite the results but clearly the season could fall away alarmingly.

 

I personally think the players should talk AND MANAGEMENT  should too

come on here and explain why we went wrong 3 games in a row 

someone must be accountable 

[Crusty Lee]

I haven't bought a programme for a long time. Is there nothing at all from anyone in management?

[old towner]

Just the normal we didn’t they didn’t . Not our players are what ever 

Come on management and the board the supporters have put in a lot of money into the club be honest with us do you want the team to go up or are you  just wanting a mid table team 

[Crusty Lee]

BTW, is Chappell really pronounced Shapelle, as per the commentator?!

[4wembleyfinals]

As you know OT I have actually been saying the same as C.Lee for several years. Perhaps somewhat more cynically.

Also something else I have been going on about since he first came is AL's insistence in using the long ball game as his main choice of preference. 

However, promotion is still in his hands and those of the team depending how much they want it. Obviously it must be clear to all this can only be achieve by way of the play-offs. 

Unfortunately, if we don't achieve this I feel the next few years will be tough for the club. You can't expect to continue to retain support if you are asked to accept the status quo for year after year. 

However, I still feeling that 21 more points, ie. 7 wins from ten games, will ensure us getting to stage one, the play-offs. From there it will be down to the luck of the draw.

It is now up to the playing staff, both management and players, to show us that they have the grit to get there.

[old towner]

1 hour ago, 4wembleyfinals said:

As you know OT I have actually been saying the same as C.Lee for several years. Perhaps somewhat more cynically.

Also something else I have been going on about since he first came is AL's insistence in using the long ball game as his main choice of preference. 

However, promotion is still in his hands and those of the team depending how much they want it. Obviously it must be clear to all this can only be achieve by way of the play-offs. 

Unfortunately, if we don't achieve this I feel the next few years will be tough for the club. You can't expect to continue to retain support if you are asked to accept the status quo for year after year. 

However, I still feeling that 21 more points, ie. 7 wins from ten games, will ensure us getting to stage one, the play-offs. From there it will be down to the luck of the draw.

It is now up to the playing staff, both management and players, to show us that they have the grit to get there.

4WF.   I totally agree  with all you said 

Edited February 26, 2022 by old towner

[Rebel without a clue]

According to to the Worthing forum our hapless right back who was given a torrid time all game was Percy, if that’s correct I can’t understand Andy playing him in this position as previous attempts at playing him there have produced woeful performances by him, it is obviously not his position if andy wants to play a midfielder in that position he would be better off playing youngs there as in my opinion he is offering very little lately 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

With Mo misfiring and none of the other strikers stepping up I honestly can't see us finishing above any of Bishops Stortford, Folkestone, Hornchurch or Lewes. Which means that we will miss out on the play-offs. And even if we did make it into the play-offs, we simply don't have the tactical nous to get past the other sides. I've watched with the interest the reactions of the Kingstonian management and fans as their team has fallen away from being at the top of the table. Despite being homeless, they have ambitions to play higher up the pyramid and their manager has fronted-up on camera after each recent defeat. We seem to have more resources than them - and a more talented squad, which makes our breakdown all the more disappointing. I want Andy to explain why the players are playing a long ball game?!

If we finish 6th then I would be in favour of a new manager coming in - with new players and a new philosophy.

[Rebel without a clue]

Comment from the Worthing forum, totally outclassed a frankly very disappointing Enfield side, they seemed to favour hoofball and weren’t very good at it…sums the last few games up

[old towner]

8 hours ago, Rebel without a clue said:

Comment from the Worthing forum, totally outclassed a frankly very disappointing Enfield side, they seemed to favour hoofball and weren’t very good at it…sums the last few games up

That made me smile coz it’s true  we are poor at the long ball as said by others on here . Andy read this and make note , we don’t do long ball 

[Raingod]

I wasn't there so difficult to say too much -  based on the 5 min highlights Worthing have posted up - I will put in the other thread now, looks like we went with a back 3 with PK and Bilal as "wing backs"

Goals were poor to concede marking wise, PKs red didnt look a red to me, their player went down easily .. but PK didnt protest - so maybe it was fair? Their guy was clean through after he failed to cut it out ..

First half commentary they werent impressed with us, their forum likewise - so we can all agree it was not a great day...

So we are on a bad run of form, 3 poor performances in a row by all accounts ( I was only at Wingate of the 3) .. but I dont get the negativity and statements on this thread like the manager should go now?

 

- Still on course for BEST EVER finish - yes we are having a blip now, and I'm sure the playing staff and management will be working hard to correct this - but we only have 1 play off contender in our 10 games left .. a good % of wins and 2nd place is up for grabs - which means we have 2 home games in the play offs .. even 3rd would mean a home semi tie ..

- If we had decided we didnt want to go up, we wouldnt have invested in Cass - I'm sure that extra part of the wage budget wasnt just lying around .. and credit to the board and Andy for making such a great signiing, along with the squad we have assembled ..

- Attendences reaching 750 .. thats what we got in the GMVC in the 80s ...

 

So yes, right to be concerned as we are off form - but still 2nd place up for grabs ... and I-personally think the club have moved on at all levels this season - and every person who has contributed to that can be proud .. there is now a gap between 6th and 7th .. and unless there is an extraordinary run by one of the clubs in 7th or below, there are 5 of us competing for 4 play off places .. we simply focus on our own games and the others will drop points against each other

East Thurrock next who are fighting for their lives and won 1-0 v Carshalton yesterday .. this has to be 3 points .. 

 

Let's keep positive ... play offs was the target at the start of the season - still well within reach .. 

 

PS Worthing forum implies there was some sort of trouble at the end - can anyone shed any light on?

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Raingod

[old towner]

Not being funny  yes it’s been a good season ,but we need now not to drop points plenty of banana skin games including East Thurrock 

we also need a new pair of boots for Mo  with plenty of goals in them 

[Bottoms Up]

2 hours ago, Raingod said:

I wasn't there so difficult to say too much -  based on the 5 min highlights Worthing have posted up - I will put in the other thread now, looks like we went with a back 3 with PK and Bilal as "wing backs"

Goals were poor to concede marking wise, PKs red didnt look a red to me, their player went down easily .. but PK didnt protest - so maybe it was fair? Their guy was clean through after he failed to cut it out ..

First half commentary they werent impressed with us, their forum likewise - so we can all agree it was not a great day...

So we are on a bad run of form, 3 poor performances in a row by all accounts ( I was only at Wingate of the 3) .. but I dont get the negativity and statements on this thread like the manager should go now?

 

- Still on course for BEST EVER finish - yes we are having a blip now, and I'm sure the playing staff and management will be working hard to correct this - but we only have 1 play off contender in our 10 games left .. a good % of wins and 2nd place is up for grabs - which means we have 2 home games in the play offs .. even 3rd would mean a home semi tie ..

- If we had decided we didnt want to go up, we wouldnt have invested in Cass - I'm sure that extra part of the wage budget wasnt just lying around .. and credit to the board and Andy for making such a great signiing, along with the squad we have assembled ..

- Attendences reaching 750 .. thats what we got in the GMVC in the 80s ...

 

So yes, right to be concerned as we are off form - but still 2nd place up for grabs ... and I-personally think the club have moved on at all levels this season - and every person who has contributed to that can be proud .. there is now a gap between 6th and 7th .. and unless there is an extraordinary run by one of the clubs in 7th or below, there are 5 of us competing for 4 play off places .. we simply focus on our own games and the others will drop points against each other

East Thurrock next who are fighting for their lives and won 1-0 v Carshalton yesterday .. this has to be 3 points .. 

 

Let's keep positive ... play offs was the target at the start of the season - still well within reach .. 

 

PS Worthing forum implies there was some sort of trouble at the end - can anyone shed any light on?

 

 

Agree totally, common sense really

18 hours ago, old towner said:

I personally think the players should talk AND MANAGEMENT  should too

come on here and explain why we went wrong 3 games in a row 

someone must be accountable 

Get the players and management on this forum ??????? how ridiculous, don’t ever lose sight of your Pub Football mentality-priceless comment- which you’re absolutely within your rights to say ??

[old towner]

Not being funny  yes it’s been a good season ,but we need now not to drop points plenty of banana skin games including East Thurrock 

we also need a new pair of boots for Mo  with plenty of goals in them 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

I am not calling for Andy to be sacked now. What I am saying is that he has been manager for almost 5 years. Whilst they've not been a disaster, and we've had a few bright moments, he's not been able to get us close to the National League South. This year was his big opportunity. If he fluffs his lines now (in relation to getting into the play-offs) then it is time for change as soon as the season ends.

[lovely stuff]

Even if we scrape into the play-offs the chances of progressing are going to be low..We consistently stuggle in 3 areas..

1.Against top five opposition

2.In big matches

3.In away games featuring large crowds

Edited February 28, 2022 by lovely stuff

[Bottoms Up]

Still a long way to go, 10 games I think?

We could still finish 7th or 2nd, my gut feeling says 3rd or 4th

[Barney]

Some pretty balanced responses mixed in with the usual knee jerk comments when we lose a game... It was unfortunate that the game the previous week was postponed, as I feel that was our opportunity to put the two poor defeats against Stortford and Wingate right. Playing Worthing away, who have shown they're the best side in the league both this season, and in the previous two curtailed seasons wasn't what we needed, and I'd pretty much written this one off as a free hit, but not one that we were likely to get anything out of being realistic. Obviously disappointed to lose the game 0-3, but we absolutely now must start looking forward to the run in, rather than dwelling on this too much in my view, and I hope the management and the squad think the same.

I think Andy and the management team do deserve a lot of credit for a lot of things, digging us out of a massive hole 5 years ago by assembling a competitive squad from almost nothing, winning a trophy a couple of years ago, and then putting together one of the most exciting groups of players that I've seen represent Town in 20+ years this season. I've said before, it's frustrating that we don't retain possession well and rely heavily on our talented attacking players to make something out of nothing to beat sides, and that we seem to lack defensive shape and organisation at times. It's a lot about game management - look at Stortford when we played them, I don't think they had nearly the attacking talent available that we did, but they were a well organised, well drilled unit who nullified us, and scrapped for every 50/50 and second ball. That's what I think we're lacking, and why we come unstuck against the better sides in the league who can stop us scoring freely.

I do think we might make the playoffs unless the wheels really start to come off from here - we've proven that we can beat the lower sides in the league, and our run in, on paper looks favourable to us, although I'd much rather be playing mid table sides than teams that are fighting for their survival in the league, and there will no doubt be some banana skins along the way that we do slip up on. As others have said, it's looking more and more like 4 from 5 to make the play offs, with Worthing being worthy winners... but there's a lot of football to play. Personally, I'd say 5th is a successful season, and I'd have taken that happily in August, and whilst over two one off games, you never know what can happen, our record against the better (and better organised) sides speaks for itself.

Does this mean that I don't think the management are the right people to take us forwards? I'm torn on this, I like Andy and team - they come across well whenever I've seen them interviewed and clearly care. They've shown they can assemble an excellent, and exciting squad and in spite of the shortcomings, I really enjoy watching this team. I think it's very unfair to suggest that we lack ambition as a club and don't want promotion, I think everyone at the club would agree that we want to get into the National South, but realistically that is the upper limit of our ambitions for the time being. Look at some of the cubs at that level, and the step above - they're huge sides with professional playing staff, and if we can get promoted, I'd be more than happy with consolidation/survival at that level. On the flip side, I think that we'd stand a better chance with a more organised, well drilled, maybe less individually talented team that retained possession better. I'm also very cautious as to what I wish for, as Andy and team have delivered one of the most successful seasons in our history, and any new management team coming in might well not make us more competitive.

I think overall we have to be pragmatic about what we can achieve as a club (I know I'll be accused of lacking ambition here by some), but relatively speaking we don't have a massive budget, aren't bankrolled by a money man, so we have to grow sustainably and organically. This clearly takes time, but in my view we're doing it the right way - gradually growing attendances, putting in place an academy scheme, embedding ourselves in the local community, looking at other income streams. Yes I'd love to be flying up the pyramid with a promotion every 5 or 10 years, but I don't think that's realistic - I'm immensely proud of the club and all it stands for, and even if we're at this level for the foreseeable future, I think it's a fantastic achievement for all involved.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Barney
Typos

[lovely stuff]

3 hours ago, Barney said:

Some pretty balanced responses mixed in with the usual knee jerk comments when we lose a game... It was unfortunate that the game the previous week was postponed, as I feel that was our opportunity to put the two poor defeats against Stortford and Wingate right. Playing Worthing away, who have shown they're the best side in the league both this season, and in the previous two curtailed seasons wasn't what we needed, and I'd pretty much written this one off as a free hit, but not one that we were likely to get anything out of being realistic. Obviously disappointed to lose the game 0-3, but we absolutely now must start looking forward to the run in, rather than dwelling on this too much in my view, and I hope the management and the squad think the same.

I think Andy and the management team do deserve a lot of credit for a lot of things, digging us out of a massive hole 5 years ago by assembling a competitive squad from almost nothing, winning a trophy a couple of years ago, and then putting together one of the most exciting groups of players that I've seen represent Town in 20+ years this season. I've said before, it's frustrating that we don't retain possession well and rely heavily on our talented attacking players to make something out of nothing to beat sides, and that we seem to lack defensive shape and organisation at times. It's a lot about game management - look at Stortford when we played them, I don't think they had nearly the attacking talent available that we did, but they were a well organised, well drilled unit who nullified us, and scrapped for every 50/50 and second ball. That's what I think we're lacking, and why we come unstuck against the better sides in the league who can stop us scoring freely.

I do think we might make the playoffs unless the wheels really start to come off from here - we've proven that we can beat the lower sides in the league, and our run in, on paper looks favourable to us, although I'd much rather be playing mid table sides than teams that are fighting for their survival in the league, and there will no doubt be some banana skins along the way that we do slip up on. As others have said, it's looking more and more like 4 from 5 to make the play offs, with Worthing being worthy winners... but there's a lot of football to play. Personally, I'd say 5th is a successful season, and I'd have taken that happily in August, and whilst over two one off games, you never know what can happen, our record against the better (and better organised) sides speaks for itself.

Does this mean that I don't think the management are the right people to take us forwards? I'm torn on this, I like Andy and team - they come across well whenever I've seen them interviewed and clearly care. They've shown they can assemble an excellent, and exciting squad and in spite of the shortcomings, I really enjoy watching this team. I think it's very unfair to suggest that we lack ambition as a club and don't want promotion, I think everyone at the club would agree that we want to get into the National South, but realistically that is the upper limit of our ambitions for the time being. Look at some of the cubs at that level, and the step above - they're huge sides with professional playing staff, and if we can get promoted, I'd be more than happy with consolidation/survival at that level. On the flip side, I think that we'd stand a better chance with a more organised, well drilled, maybe less individually talented team that retained possession better. I'm also very cautious as to what I wish for, as Andy and team have delivered one of the most successful seasons in our history, and any new management team coming in might well not make us more competitive.

I think overall we have to be pragmatic about what we can achieve as a club (I know I'll be accused of lacking ambition here by some), but relatively speaking we don't have a massive budget, aren't bankrolled by a money man, so we have to grow sustainably and organically. This clearly takes time, but in my view we're doing it the right way - gradually growing attendances, putting in place an academy scheme, embedding ourselves in the local community, looking at other income streams. Yes I'd love to be flying up the pyramid with a promotion every 5 or 10 years, but I don't think that's realistic - I'm immensely proud of the club and all it stands for, and even if we're at this level for the foreseeable future, I think it's a fantastic achievement for all involved.

To be fair ,part of the reason Andy was brought in was his 'contacts' in the game and his ability to put together a complete new squad at short notice.Unfortunately the first squad he assembled was not of good enough quality.Neither was the second regeneration of the squad, as was shown in the mid table and bottom half finishes.In fact the ability to put together a settled team,playing a settled formation and settled style of play seemed to elude us until this season.I thought we had finally turned a corner.

Also the assumption that the manager is fighting against the tide in terms of financing and size of club is not correct either.In the whole time Andy has been our manager the club has been 6th or 7th in the league for finances and for average gates,so a finish of 6th or 7th is par for the course.Anything better is an over achivement.Anything worse is an under achievement.After 3 years of under achieving i though we we going to actually over achieve this season.At the moment 'par for the course' is now looking most likely.

 

[Barney]

55 minutes ago, lovely stuff said:

To be fair ,part of the reason Andy was brought in was his 'contacts' in the game and his ability to put together a complete new squad at short notice.Unfortunately the first squad he assembled was not of good enough quality.Neither was the second regeneration of the squad, as was shown in the mid table and bottom half finishes.In fact the ability to put together a settled team,playing a settled formation and settled style of play seemed to elude us until this season.I thought we had finally turned a corner.

Also the assumption that the manager is fighting against the tide in terms of financing and size of club is not correct either.In the whole time Andy has been our manager the club has been 6th or 7th in the league for finances and for average gates,so a finish of 6th or 7th is par for the course.Anything better is an over achivement.Anything worse is an under achievement.After 3 years of under achieving i though we we going to actually over achieve this season.At the moment 'par for the course' is now looking most likely.

 

Don't disagree with either of your points LS, albeit I don't have any info on how large our budget is and how our finances stack up vs. other teams in the league. I think Andy should be cut some slack for the first season, as he was starting from effectively zero, and I would say that we've improved the squad season by season since then (although maybe results and league position haven't always followed).

To turn it around, if 6th is par for the course, would it be time to change the management if that's where we finished this year? Should we be looking to get in a new management team who might be able to overachieve, but also run the risk of starting from scratch again and maybe underachieving for a period of time? I'm not saying I know the answer, and I'm kinda glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision

[The Crowing Cockerel]

37 minutes ago, Barney said:

Don't disagree with either of your points LS, albeit I don't have any info on how large our budget is and how our finances stack up vs. other teams in the league. I think Andy should be cut some slack for the first season, as he was starting from effectively zero, and I would say that we've improved the squad season by season since then (although maybe results and league position haven't always followed).

To turn it around, if 6th is par for the course, would it be time to change the management if that's where we finished this year? Should we be looking to get in a new management team who might be able to overachieve, but also run the risk of starting from scratch again and maybe underachieving for a period of time? I'm not saying I know the answer, and I'm kinda glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision

Has Andy improved the squad season by season? Or has he got lucky with Mo's return and form for the first months of the season? Take Mo out of the team and I'd think we'd be lucky to be around 12th-15th in the league. Mo stops scoring and guess what? Yep, we stop winning! Worthing aren't reliant upon Oli Pearce for their goals. Hornchurch have had to do without Sam Higgins until very recently. Bishops Stortford dispensed with their top scorer in Jake Cass. All of them have still found a way to win recently. So is our squad actually that good?

My point really is that I don't see Andy being able to achieve any more next season (assuming we don't go up!). Mo will be moving on to pastures new - although possibly not the Football League. How is Andy going to replace those goals next season? I predict even more 'hoof ball' next season with AL. That is why I'd like to see a managerial change.